Tube inst. preamp in front of XL+?

touch33

touch33

Experienced
Is anyone using any kind of über hi-quality instrument preamp in front of their XL+? While I realize this is sort of the antithesis of what using an AxeFX is supposed to be all about, I have this hand-made tube instrument preamp that just sounds so good on everything...

My Inner Old SoundMan says “hey, whatever sounds good is OK”. Are there any technical reasons NOT to do it?

Cheers,
Bruce
 
The front input takes pedals and preamps very well so long as you set them to unity gain with your instrument. I run a Moog pedal on the front end because I like its dynamic feel and color.

A reason not to do it is that the front input is optimized for low noise with an instrument level signal and any processing before it adds noise and potential for clipping. Most well designed circuits and DSPs won't make an appreciable impact at unity gain.
 
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You can do it but not sure why. most people use a preamp to color the sound or warm up things up but there are so many places in the Axe to do this its actually overkill .
lol The AXE has preamp emulation in the cab block that's kick ass in my opinion.
 
APOGEE123 said:
...to color the sound or warm up things up...
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You nailed it - device in question is a pre that Jimmy Demeter built for me pre-Demeter Amplification and it’s sweeeeeet. I’ll be interested to see if the XL+ has it covered “inside the box”.
 
Why not run the axe Output through your preamp?

I’ve got a Great River ME-1NV preamp that I do this with when I record bass. Just to color the sound. I haven’t used it with guitars yet but, have been telling myself I should try it.

I wouldn’t bother running it through the input personally but, you may want to use the rear input or better yet, set it up in the fx loop and you can move it around as you see fit in axe edit. Good luck and please share you thoughts on your results. I for one am interested to know. Thanks!
 
Excellent suggestions all, Pettymusic, and thanks for sharing. Your suggestion to have the pre feed the rear panel input is perfect - since that’s how I decided to wire them up. Both the pre and the XL+ are in the same rack, and wired as you suggest allows me to simply plug my guitar into the front of the pre or the front of the XL+ depending on what tone I’m looking for.

Will post back once I’ve had an opportunity to give it a good shakedown - and thanks again for chiming in!
 
I've got a Vintech X73i and a distressor I run after the Axe Fx. Sometimes I have access to a UA LA 610 which is tube. I don't really worry or think about the "tube" part of it...just that they are cool preamps either way. I don't always put them after the Axe Fx...but I do a lot just for fun, additional color, and to learn/master those 2 bits of hardware. Also, in no way do I feel like I have to have these. The Axe Fx can shape the tone every way possible already.
 
In cases like this, just give it a go, and see what you like best.

In front of the Fractal, post Fractal or not at all.

I did a similar listening test for digital outs vs. analog outs and came to the conclusion the analog outs are just as good as the digital with my studio.
 
I use an Avalon U5. The "Thru Out" gets sent to the Axe-Fx, while the balanced output get's sent to my audio interface. I do a lot of reamping, so the U5's DI sounds really nice for that. I like the Tone Selector knob. Great for bass and guitars.

So, maybe you could use yours like that? Just my 2 cents.
 
Your XL+ can handle two amp blocks at once. So why not drop an Amp block at the front of your preset, and dial up the...TUBE PRE model? ;)

Then use the Cab block's preamp feature to warm up the other end of the signal chain.
 
It will sound like running the tube pre in front of a real amp. Running a line level (tube pre) into an instrument input level compromises the pickup loading input dynamics coupling that many of us consider essential to the feel and response of playing a guitar with an amp. It will likely work in the effects loop, but is unlikely to do dual cascading as well as something gain staged for just that purpose. You may get something functional, but could probably replicate it within the FAS ecosystem. The virtual tubes in the amp models and in the drive block seem to be capable of anything analog can accomplish.

I'll stick with tube and transformer preamps working their magic with microphones.

IME, using DI tracks/captures from tube or transfomer preamps don't reamp as consistently well as doing it all with Fractal. Not to say I don't love a Bass DI'd with the Focusrite ISA One, API etc, but if it needs to be reamped to match the AxeFX amp modelled track, you'd better have an AxeFx DI track to do that with.
 
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Yes, it can absolutely be duplicated within the FAS ecosystem. See post #11 above. :)
 
barhrecords said:
In cases like this, just give it a go, and see what you like best.

In front of the Fractal, post Fractal or not at all.

I did a similar listening test for digital outs vs. analog outs and came to the conclusion the analog outs are just as good as the digital with my studio.
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Me Too!
 
Man, I really dig the level of quality feedback I've received in my very very short time on this Forum. Like many audio tools, the Demeter pre was built for pro live/studio use; as such, it has a variety of outputs of varying levels/impedances as well as the ability to switch the tone stack out of the balanced output, ground lifts – you name it.

All points re: reamping, loading, coupling are well-taken – and I'm looking forward to finding the same wonderfulness "inside the box" b/c I'd like to flip the Demeter for an RJM MMGT-16...
 
artzeal said:
IME, using DI tracks/captures from tube or transfomer preamps don't reamp as consistently well as doing it all with Fractal.
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I've had the opposite in my experience.

With a dedicated unit like the U5, I have more control over getting my DI dB level in the sweet spot for reamping.

When you do it through the Axe-Fx, you have no control over volume because you're choosing "Input" as the output source. So, you get whatever level the pickups are putting out. And, as I have run into this problem, the DI's dB level coming out of the Axe is quite low and isn't quite there for a proper reamp (depending on the pickups, of course). Plus, I like how I can also shape the DI with my U5 with it's 6 position knob.

Anyways, that's my experience with it. YMMV
 
B:ASSMASTER said:
the DI's dB level coming out of the Axe is quite low and isn't quite there for a proper reamp (depending on the pickups, of course).
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The Axe's DI level is exactly the same as your guitar puts out. If that signal is too low, then so is your guitar. :)
 
Rex said:
The Axe's DI level is exactly the same as your guitar puts out. If that signal is too low, then so is your guitar. :)
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I know that. That's why I use the U5 or just the existing preamps on an audio interface because you have a knob labeled "input gain" or the like. If you're using the analog outputs on the Axe-Fx, then you have control over level into DAW with a basic audio interface. However, if you use SPDIF, like I wanted to, you're SOL. Guitar pickups need some input gain to get to a healthy dB for a quality reamp.
 
B:ASSMASTER said:
Guitar pickups need some input gain to get to a healthy dB for a quality reamp.
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I'll admit I'm confused by that. If your guitar into the Axe gives you a good result, the same level reamped into the same preset will give you the same result.

If you just want more level into the Amp block, there's always Input Trim.
 
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