Going to try FRFR again at a gig, but why is everything sounding so harsh?

Sure...

This is the doubleverb preset I'm working with. I've dialed back some of the brightness, and have tried to implement some sensible gain staging by increasing the input drive with a scene controller.

The Friedman rig....you can see how far back I've dialed back the treble/presence, because at gig volumes, it's so freaking bright. Now it's a bit more managable, but still doesn't soudn very good imo

Again, scenes are adjustments on gain levels to simulate me playign various cover songs.

Edit: how do you attach something? I'm in advanced posting and the little attach icon doesn't drop down with anything. Lol, not only can I not figure out the axe, but I can't figure out this forum
 
The title of this thread really caught my attention as I've been feeling something very similar with my setup, which is Axe-FX plus CLR. I was pretty sure that the issue is my lack of understanding of dialling in both real amps and the Axe-FX, but I've found that even the default presets have a harsh quality to them. I've updated to 12.03 and loaded the factory presets.

I've tried creating my own, using the advice here on the forum, and also loading other people's presets, but they rarely sound anything like they do in the associated recordings or the comments when other people have tried them out, again using similar gear.

I have been questioning my ears, which I still wouldn't rule out, but your experiences seem very similar to mine. Obviously it's not the Axe-FX as everything else I've heard sounds incredible, it just seems to be something awry within my setup.

I've tried resetting, by using one of the methods published in another thread, but it seems unchanged.

The singer in my band also sings in another band, of which one of the guitarists is transitioning across to the Axe-FX. Looking forward to getting together so I can compare and rule out all the bits in my rig and point the finger squarely in the right direction - at me!

Watching this thread with great interest.




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I find I can get great sounds easily at bedroom levels, through my FBT 12ma at gig volumes, not so much, I get this ice picky-ness, but I've always put that down to a non-flat response of the wedge.
 
The above two posts are definitely what I'm experiencing. Recording/bedroom volumes haven't been a problem, but this harshness at gig volumes is pretty tough to work with. That friedman patch I posted sounds alright, so i could probably roll with that. we'll see if I decide I want to or not, haha.
 
Andrew Male said:
I find I can get great sounds easily at bedroom levels, through my FBT 12ma at gig volumes, not so much, I get this ice picky-ness, but I've always put that down to a non-flat response of the wedge.
Click to expand...

Remember Fletcher Munson will be in effect the higher your volume goes. Treble and bass will be greatly emphasized at greater dB levels if a patch was dialed in at bedroom volume, especially if a patch has a lot of scooped midrange. This is a matter of physics and the way our ears perceive louder SPLs and it doesn't matter if a wedge has a flat response at that point. Bass and treble are much more difficult to hear at low levels, which is why a patch dialed to sound good at said levels can be pretty bad when you turn the volume up.

I would keep the bedroom patches and gig patches as separate as possible. Patches intended for gigging should be dialed in at gig SPLs.
 
Perhaps try to find an IR that sounds fairly balanced across the spectrum (or gives you the general overall tone you're looking for) with a given amp while cranked at the expected gig SPL's, then fine tune your tone in the amp. If you want to use the same presets at bedroom/lower levels you can compensate for the FM curve with the global output EQ if you don't want to create separate presets.
 
Okay, I think that what you need to do, is find another Axe-Fx player in your neighbourhood, and get together and compare.
 
yek said:
Okay, I think that what you need to do, is find another Axe-Fx player in your neighbourhood, and get together and compare.
Click to expand...

That would save everyone a lot of time and discussion alright.
That's why i suggested that we get the OP to upload both the preset and a raw 'FOH' audio clip, it would become clear immediately if there is a problem with the Axe or something else. Others could try the preset and compare how their Axe 'FOH' sound compares the OP's 'FOH' clip. The OP needs only play something very simple...
 
Hi bgrizzmayne - I have the exact set up you do and sounds like I've been through the same struggles you are having now over the last 6 months.

Basically, every patch I downloaded from the Axe Exchange would sound unbelievably bright and harsh through the Q12A at gig volumes, and also still reasonably bright at room levels, too - although no-where near as much.
The Q12a is my backline monitor speaker and so like you, I want it to sound good. My main sound is coming through a Mackie P.A rig and the presets also sounded stupidly bright at gig volumes through this rig also.

You need to bare in mind that (in my opinion at least), the majority of presets shared and on the exchange work very well for recording directly and for playing through studio monitors at reasonable volumes. They also tend to be made to sit well in a mix (which is great), but doesn't tend to translate well to isolated playing.

The way I see it, you have a couple of options:

1. Build three slightly different versions of each patch (or just adjust one patch constantly for the circumstances) - one for live gig-level playing, one for satisfying low-level, playing at home volumes and the third for sitting well in a recorded mix.

2. Adjust the Global EQ to tame the frequencies causing the issue with the Q12a and keep all patches constant - you will also have to adjust the global eq for the direct out to FOH of that's the way you're going.


I chose to go with the latter, but still tend to brighten patches up slightly for recording purposes. Basically I have eq'd OUT 1 for our P.A (at gig volume) and separately eq'd OUT 2 for the Q12a (also at gig volume).
I then simply change the global eq's to flat for home playing and re eq them for live work - fairly simple.

If you are interested - for the Q12a, I do the following on the global EQ:

63 = -4.3db
125 = -5db
500 = +4db
4k = -6.5db
8k = -3.7db

This tends to equate to roughly what I'm hearing at home volumes, relatively speaking.

For the P.A (Mackie SRM 450's with sub):

125 = +2.5db
4k = -5db
8k = -4.8db

As you can see - even though they are both supposedly FRFR speakers, they still need to be eq'd differently.


For me, the big breakthrough came when I tamed the 4k frequency when going FRFR - I think you might find that this is the one you are referring to which has the high-mid nastiness at high volumes, cut back a little of the 8k and maybe add a mid-range hump and you'll possibly find yourself in similar territory to your amp.

Try it on the eq page of the amp block and see if it works for you

I'm happy to share patches with you if necessary

I hope this helps!
 
Is the speaker size parameter in the cab block turned down? I've had that happen (without me touching it).
 
Try the 1x12 open IR in the AxeFx.
At the Dutch Axe Fest I tried an AxeFx2 with a patch consisting of that cab and a deluxe reverb playing Yeks Tele through a CLR. That sounded great!!!!!! :)

When you A-B like this it is better to use farfield IR's

Jens
 
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Jens said:
Try the 1x12 open IR in the AxeFx.
At the Dutch Axe Fest I tried an AxeFx2 with a patch consisting of that cab and a deluxe reverb playing Yeks Tele through a CLR. That sounded great!!!!!! :)

When you A-B like this it is better to use farfield IR's

Jens
Click to expand...

This (using a far-field IR) is something I often forget, and yes, it sounded great!
The fact that Jens was playing, may have played a part. :)
 
Can anyone tell me at what volume level the stock amp tones are intended to sound "balanced"? Presumably, the algorithms have been designed to reflect a certain tonal balance at a specific volume. I have noticed that whenever I turn my preset levels down the amps sound muddy, squishy and lifeless until I reset the amp parameters to default. This immediately corrects for those characteristics at the new level (accounting for Fletcher-Munson, I guess). This seems to imply that the amp tones have been designed to sound "good" or "right" or "balanced" at speech-level, not gigging/performance level. Can someone explain to me why this is?
 
Stringtheorist said:
Can anyone tell me at what volume level the stock amp tones are intended to sound "balanced"? Presumably, the algorithms have been designed to reflect a certain tonal balance at a specific volume. I have noticed that whenever I turn my preset levels down the amps sound muddy, squishy and lifeless until I reset the amp parameters to default. This immediately corrects for those characteristics at the new level (accounting for Fletcher-Munson, I guess). This seems to imply that the amp tones have been designed to sound "good" or "right" or "balanced" at speech-level, not gigging/performance level. Can someone explain to me why this is?
Click to expand...

Cliff: "The presets were dialed in loud so as to be sure the Fletcher-Munson effect did not influence the sound."
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/75538-fw-11-03-preset-question.html#post922986
 
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