Going to try FRFR again at a gig, but why is everything sounding so harsh?

B

bgrizzmayne

Inspired
I'm still trying to get FRFR....but I just don't have any idea why things sound the way they do, haha.

I'm currently kind of AB-ing my FRFR rig to my pedals/amp rig.

I'm running a Deluxe reverb with volume at 3.5, bass @ 5, and treble @ 5.



Then, I'm running my axe into a matrix Q12a.

The FRFR just has different frequencies, particularly a MUCH, MUCH, more pronounced midrange. For example, when I pick hard on the D string, open, I get a really high pitched frequency with much more bite, per se, in the FRFR than I do through the combo amp.

I'm literally running my mids and treble of my amp models at 2.5 & 2.5, with low prescense, AND running a PEQ pre-cab with high and low passes (blocking).

Yet I get this SUPER pronounced, mid range & trebly bite.

I'm running a very bright guitar, but I've never thought of my Deluxe reverb as being super dark; everything is just so much harsher in the FRFR and I'm not really sure how to get rid of some of these frequencies, considering I'm already running a PEQ and actually EQing everything super low. (every amp, I usually leave controls around 5. but with my axe and FRFR, leaving things at 5 is insanely bright)

Amp models I'm trying to use are the Fender Double verb, deluxe verb, and Friedman BE.

What do you guys think? This gig is a duo thing, and it's really laid back, so I thought about bringing my Axe and trying to really dial in my tones between our sets/even songs, but yeah. Any tips on the whole FRFR thing? I know I'm not supposed to get my FRFR to sound like a guitar cab, but it's going to be backlining me hopefully at a lot of gigs, and I'd like for it to sound sort of good/not harsh on stage..

Ben
 
So, to be clear, your real Deluxe doesn't sound harsh even if you put your head right in line with the speaker?

I don't know anything about the Q12a. Is it known to have a flat response? Or does it have a mid/high emphasis? Have you tried running the AxeFx through a good set of studio monitors for comparison?
 
yeah, the matrix q12a is a flat response FRFR speaker from what I understand. The Deluxe is angled sitting on an amp stand, as is the Q12a, both are point towards my ear. I mean, the Deluxe might get harsh if you really put your ear next to it, but it's always had enough brightness for me around 5. It's just weird that I have the mids at 2.5 and treble at 2.5 on an axe model and it's still harsh. As I mentioned, my guitar is pretty bright, but the guitar is going through each rig, so it's a constant..
 
Remember that the Q12A is outputting a close-mic'd tone, which often can be very bright.
Depends on Amp, Cab/IR, EQ etc settings.

Several things you can try.
Adjusting Amp settings is one thing.
Or select a less bright IR.
Or remove the PEQ and in the Global EQ turn down 31, 63, 8k and 16k all the way.
Or, in the Cab block set Low Cut at 120 and Hi Cut at 5.5kHz.
 
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Thanks for the reply, Yek. I guess I'm not really sure what's normal for the FRFR to output, I know that it's MUCH brighter than i'm used to, and that might be a good thing, but it might be a bit overwhelming.

My gig tonight isn't full band, so I won't be able to really learn how the electric will sit in a mix with drums & bass, but as I mentioned, it's a more laid back gig, so I'm going to bring my laptop and try to compensate for some things.

IDK, there's just a signature "midrangey' sound that's apparent when the volume is higher up, that I'm not super crazy about. Sounds less natural than my amp does. I hate FRFR, haha. I've yet to yield good results with it, but I've dropped some serious coin for an axe & MFC, and adding a power amp and cab isn't too appealing.
 
As Yek said, try a different IR. The IR is (almost) everything! Just start flipping through IRs, ignoring the names, until you hit one that works. I've found that I almost always need to high pass at 100-120Hz and lowpass at 8k-10k. I would put those in before flipping through IRs.
 
IDK, I am so frustrated with it, because everything sounds stupidly harsh, trebly, and bitey. On most amp models, there's just a certain compression and weird thing happening that makes the axe sound digital. maybe the product is just not going to be right for me in regards to live use....

The double verb sounds absolutely awful IMO.....at lower gain volumes it's usable, but you can't put pedals into it or push it like you can with my actual twin or the deluxe reverb that's sitting next to it. The pedals push it to break up that has no clarity, fullness, or smoothness
 
In the DYN page of the DLR Try to lower a bit transformer match, put in some supply sag & dynamics, check on the Blue Alnico CAB, or the Silver CAB (or even try the DLR Blue Alnico patch available on Axechange, sorry, it's a humble patch of myself :))). Play with input drive & level for more or less clean sound.
Cheers,
 
Have you updated firmware recently? If so, jump off an amp and then go back to it. I've had my tone change after a firmware update several times and had to hit "bypass" twice to reset amps.
 
lauke-lux said:
In the DYN page of the DLR Try to lower a bit transformer match, put in some supply sag & dynamics, check on the Blue Alnico CAB, or the Silver CAB (or even try the DLR Blue Alnico patch available on Axechange, sorry, it's a humble patch of myself :))). Play with input drive & level for more or less clean sound.
Cheers,
Click to expand...

I think I almost destroyed my walls with your patch. Haha, I'm up at pretty good volumes and this the brightest patch I've ever loaded. Holy crap, my ears

Edit: There's not a chance in hell that i'm gigging this thing tonight, it sounds absolutely atrocious. I've never been so frustrated with a piece of gear in my life.

There is SO MUCH problem solving, tweaking, and fussing with this unit that it takes away any fun from actually playing, because you can't get it to sound good with any type of ease or intuition. Hope someone out there is looking for a MK III MFC & Axe FX II.....

So many manuals, wikis, FAQs, guides, videos, and it amounts to absolutely zero because the unit sounds harsh, trebly, thin, digital, and bad. I've reserved my judgement for the longest time because I know it's my user error, but jeez. Anyone preaching that it's as 'simple or as complex as you want to be' IMO is flat out wrong. You cannot, I repeat, cannot, load up an AC-30 model with cab, plug in, and expect to get any decent sounds.
 
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Strange. Unless i really boost the highs all ir's is darker than the amps+cabs i've had.

How is the global eq set? Cab sims? Poweramp sims?
 
Global EQ is flat, as I mentioned, there's a PEQ on my patches that blocks lows and highs. Yek had a PEQ block that really boosted midrange, and I didn't like that midrange hump at all, so I just set it fairly flat with low & high frequency blocking.

But there's still all these high midrangey frequencies that come through.

The gain on the double verb doesn't sound good. Obviously, you're not supposed to get monster gain out of that amp, but I hit the front of mine with pedals. When I hit the front of a double verb with axe fx II pedals, it sounds terrible, emphasizing brittle & choppy gain, with an addition of high treble

Cabinet simulation is on, hah.
 
Kriig said:
Strange. Unless i really boost the highs all ir's is darker than the amps+cabs i've had.

How is the global eq set? Cab sims? Poweramp sims?
Click to expand...

With a FRFR speaker? Maybe something is wrong with my Q12a, but the axe is insanely bright. Sounds terrible
 
What IRs are you using? Also, check if the CAB-block isn't "faulty" by resetting it (select it, EDIT it and then double-tap BYPASS, then reselect your IRs and do the necessary tweaks).
 
Does not sound right. How does it sound trough headphones or studio monitors?

You should contact Matrix, just to be sure. If anyone has the same or close to your setup nearby, you should ask if you can compare.
 
The cab block is working. I can hear a difference when I change IR's, and when I turn off the cab block, it sounds even worse.

With that said, with cabs on, it sounds terrible. Keep in mind that i'm turning the volume up to gig volumes, but IDK.

How do you guys get a lead tone out of a double verb? I boost mine with a clean boost, and OD or two. With the axe, that sounds crappy

It just seems really weird to have to turn down every single amp sim's treble and presence to AT LEAST 3 to avoid destroying my ear drums. Most amps, I leave everything around 5 and make minor adjustments depending on venue/musical style.

With the axe, I have to add a PEQ, turn the treble down, and things are STILL way too bright.
 
there is either gear failure or severe user error. i, and many others, can load an amp and cab and have a great tone going in minutes...with no deep tweaking or crazy eq'ing. it's not an Axe issue.
 
jlynnb1 said:
there is either gear failure or severe user error. i, and many others, can load an amp and cab and have a great tone going in minutes...with no deep tweaking or crazy eq'ing. it's not an Axe issue.
Click to expand...

I think an uploading of 'FOH' audio might confirm any failure or user error - if bgrizzmayne's uploaded A2 'FOH' mix sounds brighter and harsher than other people's upload when using the same FW and patch then we'll know.
 
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