Asking for your TRUTH

The answer(s) to the OP's question is entirely subjective and based on the experiences and expectations of the respondents.

For my part I'm quite familiar with the sound of the amps I've used over the years through stage monitors, cans, and nearfield monitors. As a result the AxeFX II sounds ideal to me - IOW, exactly like the amps modeled, mic'd and monitored.

I get the allure of the 'amp in the room' experience. It's raw, visceral, powerful. There's a direct 'connection' between the player and the amp. There is, however, little practical use for the 'amp in the room' sound beyond the fun factor. Save for really small venues the sound a live audience hears is the mic'd signal through the mains. The sound we hear on recordings involve a similar path (mic>pre>processing>etc).

Ones satisfaction with the results from a modeling platform will depend largely on what one expects from it. If one is after the 'amp in the room' sound/feel then an amp may be the best way to go. The AxeFX II through a Matrix amp / guitar cab setup may also work well (many have reported excellent results - I have no direct experience with this approach). Those looking for the practical end result will likely find the AxeFX II an ideal platform to work with.
 
FYI, there has been at least one post that has been deleted from this thread and I'm surprised that I'm the only one that noticed...

Anyway, I can understand the frustration on both sides. From a user's perspective, claims such as "It accurately recreates the sound and feel of tube amps and can match the tone of live amps or recordings." lead to assumptions (even if incorrect) about achieving the amp in the room sound with the AxeFX. Along with lots of raving about the product with this or that speaker, it's easy to see that people believe they are buying into an awesome replacement of their existing rig and beyond. When this turns out not to be the case, it's understandable that some tension arises.

What would be very helpful is to A/B test current and future rigs before purchasing. This is really hard to do for any piece of equipment unless you have the resources (room, time, expertise) to do it. The next best thing is to find someone with the setup you intend to purchase and A/B with them. I've done this with people and it is tremendously helpful for them. In the Ultra days, I must admit it was a complete disaster due to my lack of expertise at the time and under estimation of amp-in-the-room vs. Axe+FRFR. Now however, the reaction has become more on the lines of "it sounds different but good" and sometimes "it sounds the same as that amp".

So to answer the OP, my truth is that in some cases, I CAN get an amp in the room sound using the AxeFX FRFR but necessarily for all amps in all settings. The truth is, I don't know b/c I don't have the amps on hand to A/B test them. From your post I'm not sure which speakers you are using but for me, it wasn't until I tried the CLR (previously other monitors including RCF) that I started to believe I was getting closer to the in the room sound. I got the CLR's for clarity I thought was lacking from the others and it really did make a difference. Unfortunately, it will be a more expensive and heavier endeavor to use a better FRFR system. And as the others have noted, you might want to try a non-FRFR solution with the understanding that you may be limited to that one Cab's signature sound.
 
PS I just checked out the mesa boogie mark v comparisons on Youtube and amp in the room sound aside, the videos don't have good matches to my ear.

Axe Fx II vs Mesa Boogie MARK V (extreme mode and iv mode) - YouTube
This one sounds just plain bad...

FRACTAL AUDIO AXE-FX II vs Mesa/boogie Mark V compare. - YouTube
Better but the imaging is not the same making it harder to compare

Fractal AXE-FX II weakness.(compare with Mark V) - YouTube
Ack...

Mesa Boogie Mark V vs Axe Fx 2 - YouTube
Minimal tweaking to make the AxeFX sound the same (through the same cab).
Sounds better to me but being in the room may be different.
 
LVC said:
As much as I dig Matrix products -- I have to disagree with you on this based on my experience with amps/cabs vs monitors.

A GT1000FX and a couple of NL12s or N212s on the other hand ... is a completely different story.
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Completely different story?? I own a GT1000. Have you played through Q12A's?
 
electronpirate said:
And what 'someone is getting into' is an advanced piece of equipment that requires a significant amount of effort to pull your individual sound out of it.
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this is sooooo true…

although before getting the Axe I was no noob when it comes to pre-amp / FX units, I do recall the few few months needing quite some effort…
much more so than anything I'd used previously

it's effort well spent though ain't it…
cos this lil' black box just keeps on delivering..
 
Yzaviv - let me clear it up for you so you don't have to read through a bunch of people just bitching and arguing at each other.

Your Axe-fx II will sound great, and very much like your amp in the room if you play it through an amp and cab in the room.

IRs are representative of what happens when you put a mic on a guitar cab and record it. They are great for recording DI or for going straight to the mixing table at a live venue. They are great for "fitting into a mix" of a band, but when you first hear them as you play alone, the result can be a bit startling. I'll personally never forget the first time I heard my 6505+ through headphones with an SM57 on the cab! I was freaked out! Really! I went home wondering how I'd gone so wrong in my quest for tone, and when I brought it up with the guy later he just looked at me and said "No dude! That tone is killer! You just need to hear it double tracked with a bit of filtering on it, and also with a bass guitar. It'll slam then!"

Since getting my Axe-fx II, I went through the initial struggling phase trying to make the sound I heard in my head. Just keep at it, because there are a lot of dudes on here who will be very helpful to you! I have personally come to really enjoy and prefer the sound of a "mixable" guitar tone more than I ever liked my amp tones in the room, but understand how your experience might be different. I will also say that I have been able to get MUCH better recorded and band-mixed tones with the Axe-fx II then I ever heard when micing my amp up in a similar scenario.

And I'll also say that even though yes, the IR situation could get better, I believe it only will continue to get better over time. If you end up going the FRFR route over the long haul, there are a host of free IRs (even some forum members like Clark Kent provide them) and some 3rd party purchasable IRs (OwnHammer, Redwirez, and some FAS stuff) that are worth a look. I'm personally an OwnHammer guy, but your mileage may vary. At any rate, I wouldn't be too concerned with user IRs for the moment being - just familiarize yourself with the stock IRs so that your brain doesn't explode!
 
Dear friends

Popcorn is running out here......

We all should met someday, drink a couple of beers (or limonades in my case) and have a talk. I guess the natural respect for each other disappeared in message boards, specially when talking emontional stuff, it's still there in the real world. It's just gear.......I know we can!

all the best to you all and happy new year!

Cheers
Paco
 
Chuck Link said:
Completely different story?? I own a GT1000. Have you played through Q12A's?
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Q12 not the Q12a

The Q12s sounded fantastic -- so don't get me wrong on this. I did probably 15 or so gigs last year with the Q12.

Of all the Monitors I tried -- the Q12 worked the best for me and exceeded all of my expectations.

I think the Matrix amp has a lot do why these monitors sound and feel better than the other monitors I have tried/owned.

If I had not discovered the NL series from Matrix --

I would still be rocking the "Q"
 
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I would like to put my experiance down for the record. I am a pro player for about thirty years and have my own studio and many many amps, here comes the problem, I was asked by one of my clients to produce a silent stage (this you will find will be more common in the future), So I did lots of research on this problem.
So what I did was set up a Matchless Independence in the studio with a 414 and a 57 close miked, and also plugged the Axe Fx 2 into the mixing desk and A-B'd the results, after a few hours working on the Axe Fx I pretty much nailed it, if not bettered the sound! Then came the FX.... Thats when I realised the power of this machine. If you want to hear the sound of an amp in a room... Do it. If you are pro and need to arrive at a session do your job and leave. This is the Bollox.

Little post note- When the studio engineers hear this product without having to set up mics and use up the main room, you get booked much more often.
 
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Angelo Bruschini said:
I would like to put my experiance down for the record. I am a pro player for about thirty years and have my own studio and many many amps, here comes the problem, I was asked by one of my clients to produce a silent stage (this you will find will be more common in the future), So I did lots of research on this problem.
So what I did was set up a Matchless Independence in the studio with a 414 and a 57 close miked, and also plugged the Axe Fx 2 into the mixing desk and A-B'd the results, after a few hours working on the Axe Fx I pretty much nailed it, if not bettered the sound! Then came the FX.... Thats when I realised the power of this machine. If you want to hear the sound of an amp in a room... Do it. If you are pro and need to arrive at a session do your job and leave. This is the Bollox.

Little post note- When the studio engineers hear this product without having to set up mics and use up the main room, you get booked much more often.
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Precisely. Until you've hooked up a real amp in the studio and A/B'd that with an Axe-Fx II you just don't realize how accurate the modeling is.

Now, with that said, the sound of an "amp in the room" is a completely different thing and if that's what you are after then use a power amp and guitar cab. No amount of tweaking or playing with IRs is going to make a near-field monitor sound like a 1x12, 2x12 or 4x12 (or whatever) guitar cab. The directivity is completely different and you simply can't fool your brain when it comes to directivity.
 
FWIW,

I still think "amp in room" is a useless sound. Music is meant to be heard. And no one in the world, except YOU are ever going to hear the "amp in room" tone. Its heard through PA speakers or Recordings.

This means 99.99999% of all guitar tones player's hear are filtered through a micing process.

If you must have that amp in room tone...get an amp. But don't EVER expect it to sound better then an Axe Fx 2 to someone listening to you play.
 
Unless you are playing small gigs where there is no PA for the instruments (only for the voices).
In this case I use AF2 + Matrix + guitar cab (or fall back on a small 1x12 combo).
Sometimes I find it useful though to have the amp in the room sound on stage when the stage is very large and you can have the old school din on stage for monitoring your own sound (and going to the FoH direct of course). Somehow the response of a 'real' guitar cab gives the feeling of a more direct attack and more open sound than FR-monitors IMHO. So far no FR monitor or FR cab can deliver that punch you feel when standing in front of a 4x12 guitar cab - at least I have not come across one.
 
Yes, that's why I choose between CLR and Matrix+guitar cab, depending on the venue.

Of course, FR monitoring has other advantages such as being able to amplify acoustic guitars.
 
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