convincing the non-believers

actually you've all convinced me....

just turn up... set up.. sound amazing...

and then answer the questions...

let the tone say it all



EDIT... got this back to front... lmao

just set up.. turn up... sound amazing...

and then answer the questions...

let the tone say it all
 
luke said:
To me it came down to the flexibility, the fact no one in the audience cares and that good tube volume was unachievable for me. The Axe is only 99% of the way there, but that 1% loss is light years ahead of a Super Reverb on 1.5.
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Bingo. When I'm at home, practice or at a gig and can run my tube amps exactly the way I want, they're often magic. When I'm at a gig and the band and/or the club needs me to turn down/away/off (which is almost always the case), the tube amp is no longer in its' ideal running zone and the Axe smokes it. Also, for a lot of gigs, I want the sound of a 20 watt amp cranked for leads and a 50 watt amp a bit less than cranked for rhythm. Sometimes I'd bring a MM Sixty Five and Tweed Deluxe to blend. With the Axe, it's no problem. Need me to turn down a bit onstage? No problem. Need me to turn up onstage? Definitely no problem with my RCF NX10s. I still have an excellent sound and don't worry about whether the sound person noticed that I changed volumed and compensated, because I didn't have to change their feed to accomodate my bandmates.

I don't really care about convincing anybody. So many guitarists are Luddites and will never do modeling whether out of fear of technology or sound preference. That's fine. I play with a guy who will never touch modeling. He sounds great, has killer gear and if he's happy, I'm happy. I love the sound he gets. I love the sound I get.
 
I had an interesting experience last night while playing a gig on a house PA that consisted of a horrendous Behringer mixer feeding some dusty off-brand amps into Peavy SP cabinets. I didn't have high hopes, and (using the house sound guy) it was loud with the capital L. But at the first break I was approached by a guy that had been watching pretty intently, who asked first about my PRS 513, then about the Axe Fx. He is a regional musician who has done solo acts and duets for years. It turns out he was a former Axe Fx owner who "sold it when I couldn't find my tube tone." He noticed I was playing a Axe Fx II, and commented his was an earlier version. It was very interesting to note he repeatedly said how impressed he was with the clean tones, the one thing he said he could never get with his Axe Fx. "Everything gets good distortion, but the cleans divide the tube amps from the modelers." Except here, and he was genuinely impressed. Even on a PA that was, well, less than ideal. Which still proves it isn't the PA... good sound sounds good. Bad sound can't be "fixed in the mix."

I never said a word in favor of or in defense of the Axe Fx. It spoke for itself. Loudly. Lol. Very.
 
Years ago, the lines between digital and tube were separated a bit. You really had to convince someone to play thru LINE 6 or Johnson Amplification amps and even then, you could hear a difference. Now, tube amps have changed and modeling has changed. I mean let's be honest. Plugging into a Marshall JVM is not the same as plugging into a 1969 Plexi.

I love tube amps but the Axe-FX II is sounding like a tube amp and I have tons of amps at my disposal. I am using a $100 power amp right now. I can't imagine how great it will sound when Upgrade my equipment!
 
I do a lot of guitar repair out of home for guys and a lot of my buddies are musicians. So I have much opportunity to "fan the flame" for Fractal. Some listen and are blown away and well... some don't... Just like anything else worth anything substantial in this world worth telling people about. I grew tired really quickly of, "casting pearls before swines"... so to speak. So all I've elected to do is let the guitars do the talking. Guys who are genuinely interested ask questions regarding the Axe II and I'm more than happy to tell them what they want to know but I leave it at that. I gave up a long time ago with pushing one religion or another to people who really don't want to hear it... and to some extent the religious aspect of the Axe is true.

The fact is that there is still a lot of stigma with modeler's including the Axe and brand "K". That's the reality of it partly due to what has preceded the Axe FX over the years. Can't blame people on that one but for people to completely shut their mind off to it is going a little too far. That's people for you. So instead of turning into some sort of "pseudo Jehovah witness" which has more of the tendency to annoy people,(although not the intention), I've elected to let the Axe II give testimonial. I have more important matters to spend my energy on.

As one prophetic simpleton once said, "and that's all I got to say about that" (Forest Gump).
 
I don't think I was preaching to anyone or trying to 'convert' them...
well at least I hope not

if the truth be told it all started with a conversation I had with some guitarist pals this afternoon.. [a face to face one]..
they're both 'old skool'.. like it all 60's and 70's.. valves, guitars, pedals.. the lot..
to listen to them it's as if guitar related manufacturing went all to sht on Jan 1st 1980...
funny thing is... I really like 70's stuff... but I like everything else too..

one of them mentioned [with a smirk] that he'd heard that I'd recently got "one of them Axe things" [like he was talking about a toy]..
these guys are older than me.. and it had a hint of "bless his lil' cotton socks" about it...
and... despite the differences in our careers and playing ability [which need not be mentioned... although I win 2-0.. lmao]..
I tried stating the case as to the strengths of multi-fx in general and then adding to that about the Axe's major advances in modelling etc...
but it really was pointless...
and got sick of all this BS.... and the "yeah but"..
it was like "but these go up to 11".. so I gave in.. looking back.. most likely flounced off [jeez Clarky you are such a fkn tart.. lol]..
and then later saw something similar on a forum [although much more light hearted - but was really not in the mood for round 2]
and I was like "what the fk is up with these people??"
although I have since apologised to the fella in the forum.. he's a totally nice guy, reasonable too, but he wasn't to know what crap I had to listen to previously..
I don't think I was rude to him.. but maybe a little crass...

anyways.. what got to me I guess wasn't the "I can pss further than you" thing.. it was the sheer closed minded ignorance..
in truth, not so much of the forum guys.. but of the two guys I spoke to that afternoon..

luckily, I vary rarely see them...
hopefully, it'll be quite some time until I do again...
jeez... next time they'll no doubt try to convince me that the world is round..
which everyone knows is utter crap...
 
I used to play live with a 1963 AC-30 and a modest couple of square feet of pedals. One night the AC-30 blew a capacitor and went totally dead half way through a number. Without stopping, I plugged the pedal board straight into the desk and carried on. (It didn't sound too bad - high volume and all.)

But nobody else noticed..... Not a soul.

Most people don't seem to know what they're listening to. They use their eyes, and if they see what they think is a cool amp, they "like" it. For a while I used to tape over all the Axe markings on the front of my Axe II. Used to call it a power amp. Lots of so-called really knowledgeable people thought it all came from the MFC...

When once at an audition I talked to the other guitarist about my Axe, this guy suddenly didn't like the sound, and started spouting about how real valve amps have sag. I thought about asking him if he know what that was, then showing him that and all the other parameters you can dial into Axe power amps..... but then I thought "F*** You". This was fine becasue he wrote the songs, so clearly trying to get him to amend his sagging arrangements wasn't going to be much fun. I left - and it took me a fraction of the time it took him to pack up and go...

I have now un-taped the Axe logos, but like some of you guys never make any mention of what I'm playing through.

But it's good that musicians are so particular about their sound. It's just such a shame that some of them don't seem to be able use their ears terribly well. Or maybe it's all about ego, and some kind of need to have 4x12s and heavy old heads looming in the background - like the metal and classic rock bands who carry walls of empty 4x12's as stage props.
 
clarky said:
I don't think I was preaching to anyone or trying to 'convert' them...
well at least I hope not

jeez... next time they'll no doubt try to convince me that the world is round..
which everyone knows is utter crap...
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Clarky... I wouldn't give another thought. You know your intentions and disposition. That's all that matters with you desiring no ill feelings with those guys. When the time comes around and you meet up with these guys again, you then can "axeplain" your axeplanation II those who you need to to kill anything that remotely resembles hard feelings.

I'm totally down with genuinely being excited about the Axe II... and I am without any doubts, but most people don't see it as I do and that's fine by me. Particularly "tube snobs" or as you said, "old skool". I''m a former "tube snob"... and worse at that... a early 1970's - to early 1984 Marshall "tube snob". I always got the feeling that people saw me as a salesman when people came around. So I just stopped it altogether in hopes that no one had taken me for "nuts". Also to spare any potential ill feelings towards one another. No piece of gear is worth that... unless someone steals it from you.

...and I don't care what those "nutbars" say... I'm with you... the world is flat. I fell off it back in 1988 after 4 hits of purple double barrel microdot... and the Metallica/Queensryche concert. :lol

Peace,
 
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I gave up trying to convince any guitar player of ANYTHING years ago. It's just not worth the hassle.
You will never verbally convince the tube guy.. he has to try it. At a gig is neither the time or place to do that.
I had a guy approach me at the wedding gig last Sat night - after I'd set up and tested a couple of clean tones out - and started talking about the gear - specifically noticing all the lights on the MFC :)
Said he played a POD, I said all of mine came from that black box under the Atomic FRFR. Never mentioned the Axe-II by name.

At the end of the night he came over and was all over how good it sounded.. great tones, just wished there was more guitar in the mix. Asked me what it was.. told him it was a Fractal Audio Axe-Fx II.. Said he'd never heard of it.
'Nuf said.
 
swass said:
Clarky... I wouldn't give another thought. You know your intentions and disposition. That's all that matters with you desiring no ill feelings with those guys. When the time comes around and you meet up with these guys again, you then can "axeplain" your axeplanation II those who you need to to kill anything that remotely resembles hard feelings.

I'm totally down with genuinely being excited about the Axe II... and I am without any doubts, but most people don't see it as I do and that's fine by me. Particularly "tube snobs" or as you said, "old skool". I''m a former "tube snob"... and worse at that... a early 1970's - to early 1984 Marshall "tube snob". I always got the feeling that people saw me as a salesman when people came around. So I just stopped it altogether in hopes that no one had taken me for "nuts". Also to spare any potential ill feelings towards one another. No piece of gear is worth that... unless someone steals it from you.

...and I don't care what those "nutbars" say... I'm with you... the world is flat. I fell off it back in 1988 after 4 hits of purple double barrel microdot... and the Metallica/Queensryche concert. :lol

Peace,
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You have no credibility though. You root for the Maple Leafs for god's sake!

:shock:lol:mrgreen
 
Was at a friends this last Saturday. A guy came over with a old beat up SG with no low E string. He played into some little 5 inch no name practice amp and plugged in some little cheapo 2 inch by 2 inch fuzz effects thing right into his guitar input jack to give him that Randy California tone and then proceeded to play Spirits entire Twelve Dreams of Dr Sardonicus album. I was floored.

It's not all about the gear. If it was I would sound awesome. I don't :)
 
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I posted this amusing story in another thread but thought it was relevant here. I was sitting with another player listening to a third player warm up before a set. We really liked the delay sound he was getting. We looked at each other and said, "Strymon. Has to be." Later, we had the chance to go up and check out his pedal board, which we assumed would be littered with cool boutique pedals to compliment his G&L and Top Boost (both signs of a player who is "in the know"). The only thing on the floor was a POD XT Live.
 
cobbler said:
You have no credibility though. You root for the Maple Leafs for god's sake!

:shock:lol:mrgreen
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neither do I... I root for the Stars..
and my youngest is Shark...

two different jerseys in the same house...
kinda like living in Red Deer, Alberta.. lol..
 
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youngmic said:
I posted this amusing story in another thread but thought it was relevant here. I was sitting with another player listening to a third player warm up before a set. We really liked the delay sound he was getting. We looked at each other and said, "Strymon. Has to be." Later, we had the chance to go up and check out his pedal board, which we assumed would be littered with cool boutique pedals to compliment his G&L and Top Boost (both signs of a player who is "in the know"). The only thing on the floor was a POD XT Live.
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and with respect to Cobbler too...

it ain't what ya got... it's how ya use it...

for a long time a lot folk used to think I used top of the line Ibanez guitars...
jeez.. I'm a leftie spaz... so there's no such thing as a top of the line anything unless you go custom build [like my gorgeous V6's - but I've only had them for a year or two]
they found it hard to believe that I played lowly early 90's RG470's
all I did was swap out the pups with something sensible and set them up real well..

it's funny, cos when I was playing at Jemfest I kinda took great pride in having the least exotic Ibe in the house.. lmao..
I guess that reverse snobbery.. lmao
 
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cobbler said:
You have no credibility though. You root for the Maple Leafs for god's sake!

:shock:lol:mrgreen
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Regardless of you jeers of a historically superior hockey club... I still love you man... and I forgive your... UTTER BLASPHEMY!! :evil:lol

... and that's all the credibility needed... besides I own an Axe II!
 
I'm of the mindset that it doesn't hurt to try and convince people. Once it gets to a point where it's obvious they don't want to listen to what you have to say, then leave it be.

People are the same way when it comes to diets. Oh you've got try this new diet. It's SO healthy for you! You'll live longer, feel better, and look back years later thanking yourself you made the switch!

... Some people just like their junk food, hahaha.

In all seriousness though, the reason I think it's worth trying is because there are a TON of EXTREMELY talented people out there. It's almost like they are denying themselves the ability to have a full set of paints to create a piece of artwork. In my opionion that's worth promoting to convince people who are at least remotely interested.

One last point, I'm of the belief that the Axe II (Or Axe III, hopefully II though, hehe) will eventually sound better than real tubes. So many people have said here that "I thought that was it! How could this sound any better? It sounds identicle! yadda yadda yadda" Yet Cliff always has that axe up his sleeve (pun intended) that left fields these people. Cliff is onto something incredible... and it's going to surpass tubes any day now.
 
swass said:
Regardless of you jeers of a historically superior hockey club... I still love you man... and I forgive your... UTTER BLASPHEMY!! :evil:lol

... and that's all the credibility needed... besides I own an Axe II!
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No words necessary! :)

sweet.jpg
 
Montreal Canadiens: 23

Toronto Maple Leafs: 13

Detroit Red Wings: 11

Boston Bruins: 6

Edmonton Oilers: 5


so on and so forth...

LA Kings... 1...

...Thank You and Goodnight.
 
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