Best Power Amp for Modelers

[sprada]

Yeah it’s basically running right into the power section giving you direct access. I think there’s some impedance mismatches with the line in so you shouldn’t use it. It’s a night and day difference.

Some poor impedance mismatch handling makes sense given that It's so much louder.
I was running the PS2-A master at 3 o'clock when connected to the Line in.
With the same preset connected to the effects return I'm just a hair above 9 o'clock

 

[Kirby Victor Hamm Jr.]

Carvin has one I'm thinking about trying.

MACH100 100W (50W/50W) Stereo Pedal Amplifier

 

[Lolo-G]

Hello Fractalian friends.
Does anyone among you use the Ashdown NewT amp?

Link Ashdown NewT

 

[Jamme1961]

IMHO Class D is okay but we as Fractal users want it all and the best sounding power amp is tube. It gets you that last bit of tone that we're all searching for - IMHO. Ive tried all the amps - Matrix, Pedal baby, SD 170 -200 all great but the only one to make the notes pop from the speaker is a tube power amp - my favorite is the Fryette Power station - for best size and weight - Tube power amps will never match the convenience of a Class D amp but for best sound Tubes baby IMHO I wish I was wrong

AI response below———-

A Class AB solid-state amplifier prioritizes sound quality with moderate efficiency, while a Class D amplifier prioritizes high efficiency at the cost of potentially slightly lower sound fidelity, making Class D ideal for applications where power consumption is critical, like portable devices, while Class AB is often preferred for high-end audio systems where sound quality is paramount.

 

[haloll]

IMHO Class D is okay but we as Fractal users want it all and the best sounding power amp is tube. It gets you that last bit of tone that we're all searching for - IMHO. Ive tried all the amps - Matrix, Pedal baby, SD 170 -200 all great but the only one to make the notes pop from the speaker is a tube power amp - my favorite is the Fryette Power station - for best size and weight - Tube power amps will never match the convenience of a Class D amp but for best sound Tubes baby IMHO I wish I was wrong

AI response below———-

A Class AB solid-state amplifier prioritizes sound quality with moderate efficiency, while a Class D amplifier prioritizes high efficiency at the cost of potentially slightly lower sound fidelity, making Class D ideal for applications where power consumption is critical, like portable devices, while Class AB is often preferred for high-end audio systems where sound quality is paramount.

Do you still use the power amp modeling in the axe FX then? Or just preamp and let the power station handle everything.

 

[Jamme1961]

Do you still use the power amp modeling in the axe FX then? Or just preamp and let the power station handle everything.

I still use the power amp modeling - always have even though its a tube amp

 

[InsideOut]

Do you still use the power amp modeling in the axe FX then? Or just preamp and let the power station handle everything.

I still use the power amp modeling - always have even though its a tube amp

Same. I leave it on all the time for several reasons.
1. I rarely have the opportunity to play at a volume where power amp breakup is attainable. A cranked plexi gets its mojo from the power amp overdriving and unless you can play at a billion db's, get that mojo from the Fractal.
2. It sounds better to me, and I don't get hung up on authenticity. Purists will say otherwise, but I'm all about what sounds good, and to me it sounds gooder with PA modeling on

Try it both ways and go with what sounds better to YOU. There is no right or wrong.

 

[Jamme1961]

Same. I leave it on all the time for several reasons.
1. I rarely have the opportunity to play at a volume where power amp breakup is attainable. A cranked plexi gets its mojo from the power amp overdriving and unless you can play at a billion db's, get that mojo from the Fractal.
2. It sounds better to me, and I don't get hung up on authenticity. Purists will say otherwise, but I'm all about what sounds good, and to me it sounds gooder with PA modeling on

Try it both ways and go with what sounds better to YOU. There is no right or wrong.

agree - I also make two presets - one for at home and one for live - with the band - sometimes I use the FR-12 (best sounding in the room IMHO ) but prefer regular guitar cabinet - just using a 2x12 most times - I recently have come back to Fractal - tried the QC and L6 -(still have HX stomp) all where a lot easier to use but - its the sound - I like the Fractal best - subjective stuff -

 

[sprint]

Same. I leave it on all the time for several reasons.
1. I rarely have the opportunity to play at a volume where power amp breakup is attainable. A cranked plexi gets its mojo from the power amp overdriving and unless you can play at a billion db's, get that mojo from the Fractal.
2. It sounds better to me, and I don't get hung up on authenticity. Purists will say otherwise, but I'm all about what sounds good, and to me it sounds gooder with PA modeling on

Try it both ways and go with what sounds better to YOU. There is no right or wrong.

probably more accurate to leave p.a. modelling on with a hi headroom low coloration external power amp when using models and/or amp model settings that rely on a lot of power amp character, especially when playing at low monitoring levels.

 

[the_test]

-H&K Ampman

Ampman is great! I also have Tubeman and both sound very close

 

[Jamme1961]

I just hate class D but it’s light cheap doesn’t get hot - it’s great but it sucks — don’t mind me - IMHO

 

[supersonic182]

Tried the Orange Pedal Baby and an expensive hoard of other solutions. I cannot recommend the Fryette Power Station enough.

It’s immediately brought the analog-tube-texture back to the sound coming from my cab, the saturated drip under my fingers, and makes the speaker dance with the sound properly even at lower volumes than I typically play.

It simply does what I expect, which is what I saw someone else on here say shortly before I went for broke and got one.

It put that warmth back into the signal, and of course does so much more. It has various power amp voicings, which I didn’t even realize till I got it. It doesn’t radically alter the tone. It just sounds and feels right. So glad that I went ahead and finally tried it for myself!

When you just want that amp and cab stuff but you’re sunk in a high end modeler… nothing else compares, really. I feel uniquely qualified in having really given so many other options too much of a try. So many people I was taking advice from along the way had only tried one or two budget options, and were “good enough” minded. For better or worse it was not good enough for me, but I did nearly give up on the dream.

…oh, and anyone telling you they used the Fryette PS with their power amp modeling off… take their words on this topic with less than a grain of salt. They were and are confused, and they don’t even know it.

If your playing and enjoyment come before the audience, and you love tubey reality; accept no substitutes, I say. Lots of these guys with solid state are truly happy, but they don’t seem to share my need for that extra sauce. They’re the lucky ones in the cave if you ask me. They “don’t hear or feel a difference,” and it doesn’t dampen their playing. Must be nice.

 

[Jamme1961]

Tried the Orange Pedal Baby and an expensive hoard of other solutions. I cannot recommend the Fryette Power Station enough.

It’s immediately brought the analog-tube-texture back to the sound coming from my cab, the saturated drip under my fingers, and makes the speaker dance with the sound properly even at lower volumes than I typically play.

It simply does what I expect, which is what I saw someone else on here say shortly before I went for broke and got one.

It put that warmth back into the signal, and of course does so much more. It has various power amp voicings, which I didn’t even realize till I got it. It doesn’t radically alter the tone. It just sounds and feels right. So glad that I went ahead and finally tried it for myself!

When you just want that amp and cab stuff but you’re sunk in a high end modeler… nothing else compares, really. I feel uniquely qualified in having really given so many other options too much of a try. So many people I was taking advice from along the way had only tried one or two budget options, and were “good enough” minded. For better or worse it was not good enough for me, but I did nearly give up on the dream.

…oh, and anyone telling you they used the Fryette PS with their power amp modeling off… take their words on this topic with less than a grain of salt. They were and are confused, and they don’t even know it.

If your playing and enjoyment come before the audience, and you love tubey reality; accept no substitutes, I say. Lots of these guys with solid state are truly happy, but they don’t seem to share my need for that extra sauce. They’re the lucky ones in the cave if you ask me. They “don’t hear or feel a difference,” and it doesn’t dampen their playing. Must be nice.

You nailed it - agree 100% on all accounts. I too have spent the money - if you buy a fractal why wouldn't you want the best power amp? I get cost and weight of class D but when you play through the Fryette Power Station you feel it and hear it. I have gone back and forth forever on all this stuff - I guess it’s fun? But expensive

 

[zebric21]

You nailed it - agree 100% on all accounts. I too have spent the money - if you buy a fractal why wouldn't you want the best power amp? I get cost and weight of class D but when you play through the Fryette Power Station you feel it and hear it. I have gone back and forth forever on all this stuff - I guess it’s fun? But expensive

Good thing with tube amps is they keep their value so you don't lose money in the long run.

 

[sprint]

Theoretically, real tube power amps should not be needed for the "best" sound since power tubes are already modelled in the signal chain (prob why there's no "Output Mode" value in Axfx's amp block speaker tab for "Tube Pwr Amp + Cab"). If we were completely "there" wrt modelling as many claim, a good quality SS power amp should be sufficient to get that "best" sound - but, tho Fractal's come a long long way + crushes the competition on modelling, and excellent tone can be had with SS (ie: I have Matrix GT for basement hacking), many folks' preference for physical tube power amps with Axfx seems like evidence that there's still room for modelling improvement despite ongoing advancement. I've gassed for a Fryette LXII or P.S. but have held off due not only to cost / availability, but also due to the observation (and tonal evidence) that Fractal consistently pursues closing the "gap", and due to my desire to stick to the modelling dream of perfect tube tone without the need for any physical tubes in the chain.

 

[Jamme1961]

Solid state is sufficient-just not the best

 

[OrganicZed]

Theoretically, real tube power amps should not be needed for the "best" sound since power tubes are already modelled in the signal chain (prob why there's no "output type" value in Axfx's amp block for "tube power amp and cab"). If we were completely "there" wrt modelling as many claim, a good quality SS power amp should be sufficient to get that "best" sound - but, tho Fractal's come a long long way + crushes the competition on modelling, and excellent tone can be had with SS (ie: I have Matrix GT for basement hacking), many folks' preference for physical tube power amps with Axfx seems like evidence that there's still room for modelling improvement despite ongoing advancement. I've gassed for a Fryette LXII or P.S. but have held off due not only to cost / availability, but also due to the observation (and tonal evidence) that Fractal consistently pursues closing the "gap", and due to my desire to stick to the modelling dream of perfect tube tone without the need for any physical tubes in the chain.

When I bought the Fryette PS-2 and first tired it with the Axe-FX III I thought I had found the missing link. It has a lot of headroom, the dynamics are excellent, and it made the low end feel huge. I liked it a lot. Then I did a direct A/B comparison of it against a QSC RMX2450 solid state amplifier (which produces about 375W per channel into 16 Ohms) and realized that the PS-2 wasn't actually that special.

The comparison made it obvious that the PS-2 was baking in extra presence and exaggerating the low end. I tried to compensate for these issues using the presence and depth controls on the PS-2, the graphic EQ, and with adjustments to the amp block speaker impedance curve. It may be user error, but I was not able tame these artifacts in a way that sounded pleasing. In contrast, I was able to get the solid state amplifier to sound very similar to the PS-2 just by making adjustments to the graphic EQ. It gave me total control over the sound in a way that the tube power amplifier did not. It also has a massive amount of headroom and excellent dynamics, so those characteristics are not exclusive to tube amplifiers.

There are still compromises made when playing the Axe-FX though a solid state amp and speaker cabinet though. If you want the optimal response you have to manually match the low frequency resonance of the amp block speaker impedance curve to the response of your particular guitar cabinet. I used a DATS V3 to measure the speaker impedance curves of my cabinets so I could precisely match the low frequency resonance in the amp block to them. That's cool, but I still have to manually adjust the amplitude and Q of that resonant peak by ear. I'd love to see the Axe-FX IV feature the ability to measure and save the speaker impedance curve of a user's cabinet in the same way that the current generation can measure and save IRs.

 

[sprint]

When I bought the Fryette PS-2 and first tired it with the Axe-FX III I thought I had found the missing link. It has a lot of headroom, the dynamics are excellent, and it made the low end feel huge. I liked it a lot. Then I did a direct A/B comparison of it against a QSC RMX2450 solid state amplifier (which produces about 375W per channel into 16 Ohms) and realized that the PS-2 wasn't actually that special.

The comparison made it obvious that the PS-2 was baking in extra presence and exaggerating the low end. I tried to compensate for these issues using the presence and depth controls on the PS-2, the graphic EQ, and with adjustments to the amp block speaker impedance curve. It may be user error, but I was not able tame these artifacts in a way that sounded pleasing. In contrast, I was able to get the solid state amplifier to sound very similar to the PS-2 just by making adjustments to the graphic EQ. It gave me total control over the sound in a way that the tube power amplifier did not. It also has a massive amount of headroom and excellent dynamics, so those characteristics are not exclusive to tube amplifiers.

There are still compromises made when playing the Axe-FX though a solid state amp and speaker cabinet though. If you want the optimal response you have to manually match the low frequency resonance of the amp block speaker impedance curve to the response of your particular guitar cabinet. I used a DATS V3 to measure the speaker impedance curves of my cabinets so I could precisely match the low frequency resonance in the amp block to them. That's cool, but I still have to manually adjust the amplitude and Q of that resonant peak by ear. I'd love to see the Axe-FX IV feature the ability to measure and save the speaker impedance curve of a user's cabinet in the same way that the current generation can measure and jsave IRs.

+1 (this would be part of the "gap" I mention above.

 

[vangrieg]

if you buy a fractal why wouldn't you want the best power amp?

Maybe because “the best” is relative to the use case, goals and expectations?

Cost aside (good SS amps are also not cheap), here are a few downsides of the Fryette:

1) weight
2) it’s mono
3) not versatile, works fine with a guitar cab obviously but it’s not the only type of speaker I may plug into
4) takes away ability to play with power amp modeling, as it interacts with the speaker and colors the sound - it’s a pro or a con depending on your perspective

And some of the benefits may not even matter on some scenarios, some people use in ears, so the main purpose of a cab is feedback, or someone may also need to use the amp as a PA amp occasionally (I did that with passive speakers and a Matrix).

See, “best” is relative.

 

[Budda]

Good thing with tube amps is they keep their value so you don't lose money in the long run.

Do they? They keep their value about as well as most other mass produced music gear imo.

Price out a brand new mesa boogie dual rec (or marshall if you're EU). Then look at all the used listings. Should see a pretty big difference in number. Same with a brand new fender american pro ii vs a used one. My axefx is probably worth about as much as I paid 5 years ago.

Used gear generally keeps its value, whether it's a tube amp or a boss DS-1 is less of a factor. Sometimes an influence makes the price skyrocket but I don't put money into the idea haha.

One day I'll try a power amp again, but no rush here.