High gain string definition

The Interceptor

The Interceptor

Member
I am looking for ways to improve string definition in my high gain patches. My go-to is a SD-1 into the 2203; a pretty solid and simple patch, but a bit lacking in string definition. I don't really know where to start, but I think using some output feedback compression in the amp block might be a good plan. FYI, I'm using Leon Todd's evergreen TV Mix 7 IR.

Does anyone have any suggestions for me?
 
I'm no expert but watched a video recently about using a parametric eq and pulling/cutting out just about the frequency of 6K it completely got rid of the "swish" in the tone giving real strong string definition.

Youtube Josh Middleton "1 simple trick to instantly give your guitars a sharper edge"

well worth a watch.
 
Trying to get it right at the source always pays dividends, but if tweaking the source (amp/mic/cab) doesn't help, I usually default to:

1: Using less gain, a different guitar, sometimes both.
2: "Balance" the pickup's output by raising pole pieces on quieter strings and lowering them on louder ones.
3: Gentle EQ: Outside of routine high & low-passing, the worst offender I find in high gain stuff is usually a high-pitched whistle that lays over the sound in a really unpleasing way, and pulling that down a little with a high-Q move can really make things feel more focused. (I absolutely hate 6k, but it can be anywhere up top. Occasionally there's a weirdo hanging out in the 2-3k region but it's much less common in my experience). A gentle dip around 300 and/or a tight little boost around 1-2k can also help with overall clarity depending on what the mix needs, but distorted guitar has a very wide bandwidth of information, and you gotta be careful not to overdo things. Going "notch crazy" like some YT engineers do can quickly destroy a guitar tone and have you chasing your own tail.
 
Hi gain and string definition don’t go together too well. Not sure of how you can get good string definition when clipping the signal that hard. I recall an interview with Elwood Francis, tech for Billy Gibbons and he was taking about a Mojave Scorpion amp that Billy would use when he wanted to hear the strings. For chords use less gain and more for the single notes or leads. Nature of the beast I think. Could be a way to do it though on these units. Try different settings on the master volume and play with the NFB and bias. Try the Klon it seems to have more clarity than some pedals.
 
A 2203 isn't known for string definition. It suffers from considerable bias excursion as do most vintage designs.

You can turn down the Master Bias Excursion which will help or use a more modern amp (like a 515x) which is intentionally designed to limit bias excursion.
 
FractalAudio said:
A 2203 isn't known for string definition. It suffers from considerable bias excursion as do most vintage designs.

You can turn down the Master Bias Excursion which will help or use a more modern amp (like a 515x) which is intentionally designed to limit bias excursion.
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Thank you!
 
Saarang Narayan said:
How about the CCV 1B or 2A as an alternative? Or indeed the Q-Rod models?
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Perhaps. Both are "Marshall inspired" so they may suffer from a bit of "clutter" but will certainly have less than a 2203.

IMO people who want "string definition" don't want what I call "clutter". Vintage designs exhibit considerable bias excursion. This causes the duty cycle to change and introduces intermodulation distortion (IMD). IMD manifests as a low-frequency rumble (among other things).

IMD, however, makes things sound warmer when rolling off the volume. Without some IMD amps can sound sterile, especially at lower gain.

Turning down the Master Bias Excursion reduces the amount of IMD. You can also experiment with the Preamp Bias control and Cathode Follower parameters. Cathode followers introduce their own type of "clutter". The 5150 used a plate-driven tone stack with feedback to eliminate the clutter associated with a cathode follower.

The 5153 uses a cathode follower but attenuates the signal prior to prevent overdriving the cathode follower thereby eliminating the clutter.
 
RichRees said:
I'm no expert but watched a video recently about using a parametric eq and pulling/cutting out just about the frequency of 6K it completely got rid of the "swish" in the tone giving real strong string definition.

Youtube Josh Middleton "1 simple trick to instantly give your guitars a sharper edge"

well worth a watch.
Click to expand...
I had this video pop up in my feed and neglected to watch it. Instant tone improvement for what I was chasing. Thanks for the reminder!
 
FractalAudio said:
Perhaps. Both are "Marshall inspired" so they may suffer from a bit of "clutter" but will certainly have less than a 2203.

IMO people who want "string definition" don't want what I call "clutter". Vintage designs exhibit considerable bias excursion. This causes the duty cycle to change and introduces intermodulation distortion (IMD). IMD manifests as a low-frequency rumble (among other things).

IMD, however, makes things sound warmer when rolling off the volume. Without some IMD amps can sound sterile, especially at lower gain.

Turning down the Master Bias Excursion reduces the amount of IMD. You can also experiment with the Preamp Bias control and Cathode Follower parameters. Cathode followers introduce their own type of "clutter". The 5150 used a plate-driven tone stack with feedback to eliminate the clutter associated with a cathode follower.

The 5153 uses a cathode follower but attenuates the signal prior to prevent overdriving the cathode follower thereby eliminating the clutter.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this! This explains SO much. I’ve always battled this “noise” underlying the distortion which is exactly what you describe as “clutter” whenever I’ve challenged mysef to try and get a tight modern metal tone out of, say, a Plexi or a 2203. Some tricks do work but ultimately nothing makes it sound like a proper metal amp. Just tried lowering bias excursion and that did get me closer than ever to a “proper” high gain tone with the 2203 with the sat switch on (ideal) and a little bit of saturation; threw a tilt eq in the input eq tab and voila!
 
FractalAudio said:
Perhaps. Both are "Marshall inspired" so they may suffer from a bit of "clutter" but will certainly have less than a 2203.

IMO people who want "string definition" don't want what I call "clutter". Vintage designs exhibit considerable bias excursion. This causes the duty cycle to change and introduces intermodulation distortion (IMD). IMD manifests as a low-frequency rumble (among other things).

IMD, however, makes things sound warmer when rolling off the volume. Without some IMD amps can sound sterile, especially at lower gain.

Turning down the Master Bias Excursion reduces the amount of IMD. You can also experiment with the Preamp Bias control and Cathode Follower parameters. Cathode followers introduce their own type of "clutter". The 5150 used a plate-driven tone stack with feedback to eliminate the clutter associated with a cathode follower.

The 5153 uses a cathode follower but attenuates the signal prior to prevent overdriving the cathode follower thereby eliminating the clutter.
Click to expand...
What about something like the Bogner XTC , I have Always felt that the Red channel has pretty good clarity and definition but it still core Marshall is it not ?
 
FractalAudio said:
Perhaps. Both are "Marshall inspired" so they may suffer from a bit of "clutter" but will certainly have less than a 2203.

IMO people who want "string definition" don't want what I call "clutter". Vintage designs exhibit considerable bias excursion. This causes the duty cycle to change and introduces intermodulation distortion (IMD). IMD manifests as a low-frequency rumble (among other things).

IMD, however, makes things sound warmer when rolling off the volume. Without some IMD amps can sound sterile, especially at lower gain.

Turning down the Master Bias Excursion reduces the amount of IMD. You can also experiment with the Preamp Bias control and Cathode Follower parameters. Cathode followers introduce their own type of "clutter". The 5150 used a plate-driven tone stack with feedback to eliminate the clutter associated with a cathode follower.

The 5153 uses a cathode follower but attenuates the signal prior to prevent overdriving the cathode follower thereby eliminating the clutter.
Click to expand...
Can we control master bias excursion with input level, going for the best of both worlds?
 
Try putting a compressor after the amp and cab. I do this with all my presets. It makes them pop a bit more
 
This topic is important to me.
I dislike a muddy, non defined rock tone!
Nice suggestions.
I'm going to try the 5150's and see how that sounds.
 
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