Windows 10 support ends - Are you interested in Linux support by FAS?

[GlennO]

It's also worth nothing that you can't replace/upgrade RAM on a ton of Windows laptops anymore, either. Except that there's no integration with the CPU, like there is with Apple Silicon. Not yet, anyway.

Windows laptops are in a strange place right now. Microsoft is scrambling in their transition to Arm to try to catch up on power/performance. The latest Snapdragon iteration has integrated memory, so it's coming, but they've got a long way to go to catch up for applications like music production.

 

[Andrew Male]

I'd be surprised if MSFT didn't extend Windows 10 support time period.

Having just switch back from 11 to 10, I can attest first hand that win11 is still as horrible as it gets.

Why, genuine question, I have 10 and 11 and they are both pretty much the same to me now. I disable all the nonsense like copilot. 11 has been solid as a rock.

 

[rossipedia]

Windows 10 had an almost 10 year lifespan. That's long enough. It's time to let it rest.

 

[marsonic]

I always vote Yes when these come up - if I could, I'd switch to any of Linux, FreeBSD, or OpenBSD in literally a heartbeat. But, when I've tested it, there's too much from the music and photo world that a) doesn't work and b) doesn't have a truly viable alternative.

Neither Windows nor macOS are actually good, and the people who say Apples are painless really confuse me. I think I'm coming up to 2 years with my M2 Pro Mini, and while it hasn't had any drastic problems, little software things keep breaking that take a lot of time to figure out. In some specific ways, the performance is worse than my last PC (especially storage performance).

I've come to the conclusion that what I really want will never happen. Too many companies would have to add support for an OS that they don't seem to know exist, and that leaves me to choose the lesser of two evils....which seems like it's going to be Apple for the foreseeable future.

 

[tealtonerick]

I always vote Yes when these come up - if I could, I'd switch to any of Linux, FreeBSD, or OpenBSD in literally a heartbeat. But, when I've tested it, there's too much from the music and photo world that a) doesn't work and b) doesn't have a truly viable alternative.

Neither Windows nor macOS are actually good, and the people who say Apples are painless really confuse me. I think I'm coming up to 2 years with my M2 Pro Mini, and while it hasn't had any drastic problems, little software things keep breaking that take a lot of time to figure out. In some specific ways, the performance is worse than my last PC (especially storage performance).

I've come to the conclusion that what I really want will never happen. Too many companies would have to add support for an OS that they don't seem to know exist, and that leaves me to choose the lesser of two evils....which seems like it's going to be Apple for the foreseeable future.

It's really, really puzzling to me that users would select premium technology like FAS and then not embrace Linux at every possible opportunity.

 

[marsonic]

It's really, really puzzling to me that users would select premium technology like FAS and then not embrace Linux at every possible opportunity.

It's because you kind of can't.

I mean...I do. My linux computers still outnumber everything else combined by quite a lot (though they're all VMs or Hypervisors).

I think it boils down to processing plugins, Wavelab Pro, FM3(etc)-Edit, and Capture One that keep me on mac/win. Everything else has at least a functional if not superior alternative. Traktor could, but if it means being able to ditch mac/win, I could switch to standalone players or ditch my 20-year-old analog rotary mixer and spend even less on a standalone all-in-one thingy that would do everything I need.

 

[tealtonerick]

It's because you kind of can't.

I mean...I do. My linux computers still outnumber everything else combined by quite a lot (though they're all VMs or Hypervisors).

I think it boils down to processing plugins, Wavelab Pro, FM3(etc)-Edit, and Capture One that keep me on mac/win. Everything else has at least a functional if not superior alternative. Traktor could, but if it means being able to ditch mac/win, I could switch to standalone players or ditch my 20-year-old analog rotary mixer and spend even less on a standalone all-in-one thingy that would do everything I need.

Yes, I certainly agree. I am hopelessly incarcerated under windoze with many applications for this reason. But still, why would one vote AGAINST moving in the right direction regarding FAS as long as nothing else is lost?

 

[sprint]

why would one vote AGAINST moving in the right direction regarding FAS as long as nothing else is lost?

Opportunity cost - resources would need to be directed toward Linux support, and away from core product development resulting in a net loss of possible core product evolution. So there would actually be an impact to those users not interested in, or able to, use Linux.

 

[WhiteRoom]

Opportunity cost - resources would need to be directed toward Linux support, and away from core product development resulting in a net loss of possible core product evolution. So there would actually be an impact to those users not interested in, or able to, use Linux.

Yes, this seems like the crux of this particular ask.

Does the current Edit codebase compile on Linux, or would even that initial step take significant work?

 

[sprint]

Yes, this seems like the crux of this particular ask.

Does the current Edit codebase compile on Linux, or would even that initial step take significant work?

don't know, but I suspect yes, would be significant work, given FAS' comment here

 

[TheRedDevil]

Yes, this seems like the crux of this particular ask.

Does the current Edit codebase compile on Linux, or would even that initial step take significant work?

FAS Tools as Open Source provided by the community? Some optimization to support Bottles/Wine should be enough, or? Possibly latency could be an issue for reamping and midi support. I don't know. One SW update per year should be enough. I don't always need every Firmware supported directly. Support for a workaround is also enough for me. A 80% solution is much cheaper than a 100% solution. I still can use the device interface but not all features AXEEdit and Fracbot are given. That would be a basis to start and FAS can see if Linux will rule in future.

 

[TheRedDevil]

I keep wondering if it all works for me because CachyOS has a one button install for gaming and multimedia packages. Maybe it installed something the Axe software needs to work that other distros aren't getting by default. Could also be the window manager. I'm using KDE Plasma Wayland. Mint uses Gnome by default, doesn't it?

Mate is based on Gnome2. I will give KDE a try together with Ubuntu and CatchyOS (in a VM for testing) in near future. Currently I don't find the time (family, kids, work, ...).

 

[DLM]

Mate is based on Gnome2. I will give KDE a try together with Ubuntu and CatchyOS (in a VM for testing) in near future. Currently I don't find the time (family, kids, work, ...).

Cool, let me know how it goes. Since you said it is showing as connected when you move the window over to the side, I'd be willing to bet it's either a video driver issue, or a Gnome issue with how it renders the windows. You could also just trying installing KDE on the install you have first since you can switch between window managers. Just install the latest KDE Plasma and run it with Wayland instead of X11 and see how it goes before you get into installing a whole other OS in a VM.

 

[IAmThePepperoniKing]

That's not because of anything Microsoft is involved with because they only make the OS, not the hardware (unless you count the Surface?)...

There's really no such thing as a "Windows laptop", just laptops that Windows is compatible with. It's like a "USB printer cable" which is just a USB B to USB A cable...

Fully aware of that. Just saying, as someone who does ordering for thousands of laptops, it’s going the same way. Surface, Thinkpads, many EliteBooks.

 

[unix-guy]

FAS Tools as Open Source provided by the community?

I seriously doubt that will ever happen... There's proprietary stuff under the hood.

 

[TheRedDevil]

Cool, let me know how it goes. Since you said it is showing as connected when you move the window over to the side, I'd be willing to bet it's either a video driver issue, or a Gnome issue with how it renders the windows. You could also just trying installing KDE on the install you have first since you can switch between window managers. Just install the latest KDE Plasma and run it with Wayland instead of X11 and see how it goes before you get into installing a whole other OS in a VM.

I installed KDE Plasma 5.x just with X11 support. No success, same result. Plasma 6 with Wayland seems not to be available for Ubuntu 24.04LTS. Downloaded CatchyOS and tried to install it directly. But UEFI SecureBoot told me about wrong hash key. I think I would need to invest more time or skip usage of LTS version to get Plasma 6.
I could imagine, that the on board graphic card of my old Intel Celeron J1900 is the issue and you need Nvidia/Vulcan, Plasma 6 and KDE. Currently I'm not really motivated anymore. Too complex. But it runs in Windows 10. It need to become much easier, because if anything changes, it will not work anymore. Using Catchy in a VM could work, but if it is the graphic card or something different, I can't proof. I stop the Bottles/Wine test here and hope that FAS or somebody finds the solution.

Edit: Kubuntu 24.10 uses Plasma 6. My last try. I will report.

 

[DLM]

I installed KDE Plasma 5.x just with X11 support. No success, same result. Plasma 6 with Wayland seems not to be available for Ubuntu 24.04LTS. Downloaded CatchyOS and tried to install it directly. But UEFI SecureBoot told me about wrong hash key. I think I would need to invest more time or skip usage of LTS version to get Plasma 6.
I could imagine, that the on board graphic card of my old Intel Celeron J1900 is the issue and you need Nvidia/Vulcan, Plasma 6 and KDE. Currently I'm not really motivated anymore. Too complex. But it runs in Windows 10. It need to become much easier, because if anything changes, it will not work anymore. Using Catchy in a VM could work, but if it is the graphic card or something different, I can't proof. I stop the Bottles/Wine test here and hope that FAS or somebody finds the solution.

Edit: Kubuntu 24.10 uses Plasma 6. My last try. I will report.

Good luck.

 

[framos]

I installed KDE Plasma 5.x just with X11 support. No success, same result. Plasma 6 with Wayland seems not to be available for Ubuntu 24.04LTS. Downloaded CatchyOS and tried to install it directly. But UEFI SecureBoot told me about wrong hash key. I think I would need to invest more time or skip usage of LTS version to get Plasma 6.
I could imagine, that the on board graphic card of my old Intel Celeron J1900 is the issue and you need Nvidia/Vulcan, Plasma 6 and KDE. Currently I'm not really motivated anymore. Too complex. But it runs in Windows 10. It need to become much easier, because if anything changes, it will not work anymore. Using Catchy in a VM could work, but if it is the graphic card or something different, I can't proof. I stop the Bottles/Wine test here and hope that FAS or somebody finds the solution.

Edit: Kubuntu 24.10 uses Plasma 6. My last try. I will report.

Unfortunately, all wine-based attempts will fail sooner or later.

Told ya. Been there so many times (years, decades...) with wine. So close but never quite there. Not bashing wine, it does a wonderful job for what it is, but it can only go so far.

We're not second class citizens, Linux needs to be properly supported by Fractal. I do hope this happens someday.

 

[marsonic]

I do hope this happens someday.

Me too. But, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[DLM]

Told ya. Been there so many times (years, decades...) with wine. So close but never quite there. Not bashing wine, it does a wonderful job for what it is, but it can only go so far.

We're not second class citizens, Linux needs to be properly supported by Fractal. I do hope this happens someday.

I mean, they both work fine for me on CachyOS. Could be because it's an Arch rolling distro, could be the KDE 6, could be that I'm using Nvidia and he's using intel chipset video...I don't know. I do know they're both running perfectly fine for me in Bottles, so they do work. It's not a Bottles (wine) issue, unless it's because he's being forced to use the flatpak version, and I'm using a distro version.