Uncle Larry's take on digital amp modelers

Jim Amsden

Jim Amsden

Inspired
Tom Bukovac, a.k.a. "Uncle Larry" (https://www.youtube.com/@501chorusecho) has posted a couple of recent videos expressing an opinion on real amps vs digital amp modelers. He says they're about 50% there and mentions high-end artifacts, fizz, lack of clean thump, and the issues with multi-tracking digital modelers accentuating the issues. I think I understand where he's coming from on this, having experienced a bit of it myself with various modelers I've used (Helix, Quad Cortex, FM8, HD500X, POD-XT, POS 2.0, lots of plugins including S-Gear, Neural DSP, Helix Native, etc.).

But I wonder what Cliff's take would be on Tom's issues. Are modelers the issues, or might it be the use of IRs and playback systems and volume levels that are the source of Tom's issues given that the speaker is a significant part of guitar tone. I would love to see Cliff and Tom in a discussion that addresses Tom's issues. I suspect we'd all learn a lot from that.
 
My point is I respect his opinion as an experienced, practiced guitarist, and wonder what we can learn from him. I'm also pretty happy with modern modelers and use them for every gig for the last 9 years. And I have two really nice old tube amps too. They never get used.

My guess is that if Cliff and Tom talked, we'd all learn how to better use our modelers, benefiting from both of their experiences and knowledge.
 
I think it’s all good. Vibes change, challenges change, use the tool that’s best for you. Ive got bit by the play amps again bug, then I remember all the little challenges with that, and go right back to fractalland!! It’s a happy place!!
 
Countryclarke said:
John Mayer said (like 3 years ago) that modelers (he was using an Axe FX III at the time) are like 90% of the way there.
So who’s right?
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Nobody ever talks about what percentage of their opinion is based on emotional bias, yet they rail on in interview after interview trying to justify that bias. The music I grew up on was made with tube amps, there was no modeling in the seventies and eighties. The magazines I read all had interviews with my favorite guitarists talking about their gear, all of which was old school (though much of it was brand new at the time). That was my world, and there is still a part of my brain that embraces that world. I still have a room full of tube amps (including five 4x12s), and they definitely appeal to that emotional side of my musical history.

But in my life today, they are largely impractical and somewhat of a burden to lug around, hence the practical side of my brain takes over and keeps things real.
 
Frodebro said:
Nobody ever talks about what percentage of their opinion is based on emotional bias, yet they rail on in interview after interview trying to justify that bias. The music I grew up on was made with tube amps, there was no modeling in the seventies and eighties. The magazines I read all had interviews with my favorite guitarists talking about their gear, all of which was old school (though much of it was brand new at the time). That was my world, and there is still a part of my brain that embraces that world. I still have a room full of tube amps (including five 4x12s), and they definitely appeal to that emotional side of my musical history.

But in my life today, they are largely impractical and somewhat of a burden to lug around, hence the practical side of my brain takes over and keeps things real.
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A John Mayer quote that I like to think about in regards to modeling (I swear I’m not a Mayer fanboi) - “And if somebody had walked a Fractal into the Thriller sessions? You would have heard a Fractal all over that record.”

Artists have always been bound to technology that was available at the time (obviously) so to think about what could have transpired if the technology of today was used in the past is interesting. If digital was as good as it is now back in the 70s, you better believe Lukather and EVH would at least entertain it.
 
Countryclarke said:
I edited my post, it was a JM quote but it still stands true. Hendrix and all those guys would take that technology to new heights just like they did with the stuff they had available at the time. It wouldn’t be fathomable tbh. Hendrix using pitch shifting and harmonized delays, etc. I can’t even imagine.
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Tweaked my post as well to keep everything straight. But yeah, some of the greatest pioneers in the industry were absolutely all over the latest & greatest stuff. They would have embraced today's technology.
 
Jim Amsden said:
My point is I respect his opinion as an experienced, practiced guitarist, and wonder what we can learn from him. I'm also pretty happy with modern modelers and use them for every gig for the last 9 years. And I have two really nice old tube amps too. They never get used.

My guess is that if Cliff and Tom talked, we'd all learn how to better use our modelers, benefiting from both of their experiences and knowledge.
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My only response is this - look through the artist lists on the Fractal, Line 6, Neural DSP, Kemper, etc... product websites and decide for yourself if those artists would settle for "about 50% there".
 
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