5150 Presence Knob

Do You Want the 5150 Presence Control to be Authentic?

  • Yes

    Votes: 160 36.6%
  • No

    Votes: 277 63.4%

  • Total voters
    437
So, not that I really want to step into all of this controversy--and the decision has been made already--but out of curiosity, I searched and found an explanation directly from James Brown, lead designer, on another site (link included for verification purposes):

"Back to the discussion on how the Presence works on an EVH 100W.... the choice of using an Audio taper pot on the Presence of the 5150's goes back to my first one......it wasn't anything to do with 'tolerance' or price, just that we already had a 10KA in house and once I put it in the first prototype, I couldn't change it....even though it doesn't really do anything until you get to about 1:00. Ed liked the amp like it was, so I never changed it on any of the Peavey's, and EVH brand kept it that way on the 100W amps.

"When I got to EVH in 2019, I started this Iconic project using the 50W 5150 III as the go-to amp, because it was more popular than the 100W ones. It was also a newer design. It turns out that the 50W's presence had been changed to a Reverse Audio pot, which makes the presence control adjust more 'linearly' across the knob. It's due to how Presence is wired, so it literally changes linearly by using a Reverse Audio(comes up really fast). I didn't even really look at that detail on the 100W amps, but they were still Audio for whatever reason. The funny thing is that so far I've seen NOBODY compare the Iconic to the 50W 5150 III, or they'd find the presence matches pretty closely. Instead they all compare the Iconic Presence that 'comes up fast' to the 100W amps where the Presence 'comes up very slow'. You basically have to keep the Presence down around 10:00 to be where 1:00 is on the 100W heads!"

https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/5150-iconic-new-budget-5150-from-evh-gear.344895/post-5363530

And another, slightly different, regarding the Presence pot taper on the Iconic:

"Now one thing a lot of people have difficulty with is that we used the same potentiometer(electro-mechanical part behind the knob) tapers for the Presence that are on the 50W 5150 III......which is a reverse audio that comes up faster but spreads the control over the whole knob. When I did the original 5150, I didn't have a pot to do that in stock and used an audio, so it's slow to increase and didn't do anything until about 1:00. This 'error' carried on throughout the 5150's all the way up until the 50W III. So compared to most of the other 5150's, you have to turn that knob down lower than you're used to. That can make it sound harsh if you're using a brighter speaker like a V30, but it works great with the Greenbacks and EVH Celestion. So it's one of those trade-offs we deal with all the time."

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/evh-5150-iconic.2269504/post-34492462

Make of that what you will.
 
I think the FAS Ideal versions are the ones that have the modified controls that clean up some of the problems with the original amps. If you start correcting original design decisions you start losing the concept of being able to move from a real amp to the fractal and feel comfortable with how the original amp reacts. I always ran the presence high on my 5150s (I did not know about the taper issue, it is just how it worked) so it is nice that the model works the same way.
 
So, not that I really want to step into all of this controversy--and the decision has been made already--but out of curiosity, I searched and found an explanation directly from James Brown, lead designer, on another site (link included for verification purposes):

"Back to the discussion on how the Presence works on an EVH 100W.... the choice of using an Audio taper pot on the Presence of the 5150's goes back to my first one......it wasn't anything to do with 'tolerance' or price, just that we already had a 10KA in house and once I put it in the first prototype, I couldn't change it....even though it doesn't really do anything until you get to about 1:00. Ed liked the amp like it was, so I never changed it on any of the Peavey's, and EVH brand kept it that way on the 100W amps.

"When I got to EVH in 2019, I started this Iconic project using the 50W 5150 III as the go-to amp, because it was more popular than the 100W ones. It was also a newer design. It turns out that the 50W's presence had been changed to a Reverse Audio pot, which makes the presence control adjust more 'linearly' across the knob. It's due to how Presence is wired, so it literally changes linearly by using a Reverse Audio(comes up really fast). I didn't even really look at that detail on the 100W amps, but they were still Audio for whatever reason. The funny thing is that so far I've seen NOBODY compare the Iconic to the 50W 5150 III, or they'd find the presence matches pretty closely. Instead they all compare the Iconic Presence that 'comes up fast' to the 100W amps where the Presence 'comes up very slow'. You basically have to keep the Presence down around 10:00 to be where 1:00 is on the 100W heads!"

https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/5150-iconic-new-budget-5150-from-evh-gear.344895/post-5363530

And another, slightly different, regarding the Presence pot taper on the Iconic:

"Now one thing a lot of people have difficulty with is that we used the same potentiometer(electro-mechanical part behind the knob) tapers for the Presence that are on the 50W 5150 III......which is a reverse audio that comes up faster but spreads the control over the whole knob. When I did the original 5150, I didn't have a pot to do that in stock and used an audio, so it's slow to increase and didn't do anything until about 1:00. This 'error' carried on throughout the 5150's all the way up until the 50W III. So compared to most of the other 5150's, you have to turn that knob down lower than you're used to. That can make it sound harsh if you're using a brighter speaker like a V30, but it works great with the Greenbacks and EVH Celestion. So it's one of those trade-offs we deal with all the time."

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/evh-5150-iconic.2269504/post-34492462

Make of that what you will.
So I was right, it was a mistake.
 
So I was right, it was a mistake.

If you want to get real frustrated, go check out a handful of "5150 III 100w vs 50w" and "5150 III vs EVH Iconic" videos on youtube where the player just sets the Presence knobs to noon on both amps and refuses to move them, and then proudly declares the 5150 III 100w to be definitively "darker" than the other amp.
 
Dude, the presence knob has a huge effect on the tone!
Yes, but please show me where, in the history of this precise amp, has it been the determinate tone shaper of what makes this amp famous! Its a freaking digital knob!! I mean there are far more important knobs in that virtual model that will make it sound and feel better!!
 
The 5150 is on countless metal records and still in production AS IS after 30+ years.
Mistake or not, I trust Fractal to deliver an authentic experience, it's why I bought mine.
If I were to buy a real 5150, knowing about the presence control I'd probably want to mod it with a better pot taper to make it more useful...

I feel vindicated defending the ideal option as the posts above show that it wasn't some deliberate design choice to make it sound a particular way but "we had these parts and Eddie didn't complain".
 
the choice of using an Audio taper pot on the Presence of the 5150's goes back to my first one......it wasn't anything to do with 'tolerance' or price, just that we already had a 10KA in house and once I put it in the first prototype, I couldn't change it....

Exactly what my first thoughts were when finding out about this...
 
If I were to buy a real 5150, knowing about the presence control I'd probably want to mod it with a better pot taper to make it more useful...

I feel vindicated defending the ideal option as the posts above show that it wasn't some deliberate design choice to make it sound a particular way but "we had these parts and Eddie didn't complain".
Whether it is a mistake or not, is kind of irrelevant.

It is the way it is. So the model should be too.

Everything about the Axe should be authentic in my view. Never idealized.
 
I mean, aren't most amps manufactured with the components the companies happened to have on hand? One could idealize most older amps, and really, that seems to be how so many of the most revered builders got started. I guess to me it's just the nature of the beast. For idealized versions of amps, we have the FAS amps as well as whatever models of modern ones are idealized versions of classics.

I relate this to guitar design itself. So many innovations have fallen flat or only gained marginal success in the market because guitarists tend to revert to whatever was the norm in the 50s.
 
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