Is it me or are others in the same boat?

316ms said:
Does it matter? The PEQ is in the signal chain is the point. Whether it's a block or the output block it's still a PEQ, isn't that the point?😏
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No. The point of my question was why ADD a PEQ to every preset to do the job that the global Output EQ was created for.
 
In my experience, there are 2 main things to EQ: the tone itself, and a “global” EQ adjusting to the room - an EQ after everything.

In general for me, once my presets sound the way I want, the adjustment eq per room or venue makes my tones sound how I want without adjusting the presets.

I think adjustment to the room is something most people who have sound issues is missing. We didn’t really do that with traditional amps, but we’ve all had our amazing real amps at some gig where nothing sounded right no matter what we did with the BMT knobs. Even real amps and cabs can/should be adjusted to the room, but the limited range of BMT can’t do it sometimes, and the BMT creates the tone and not always the EQ.

One EQ adjustment can make all tones sit where it should. It’s a new skill to learn, but pretty easy to figure out over time. In theory, in my experience, you shouldn’t ever have to adjust individual presets or scenes if they already sound how you want. (This is different from changing gain or tone knobs to continue to develop your tone and preference.)

This vid by Dave Rat outlines the concept (he mentions 3 EQ areas, but mainly focuses on the 2 I mentioned). It takes a bit to get into the concept but the intro is good to watch.



The same concepts can be applied to different FR speakers. If your tones sound great in one location, they can get close or exact in another one with an EQ that affects everything (global, or after the Axe in the signal chain). Use some global EQ to adjust for your new FR speaker. At a different venue, you may have to adjust it a bit more.

None of this is new - sound guys have been doing this forever. We are using full range gear now, so we have the entire range of frequencies to adjust, and the tools to adjust them. Vs a traditional amp with a few tone controls that may or may not help us adjust to the room.
 
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chris said:
In my experience, there are 2 main things to EQ: the tone itself, and a “global” EQ adjusting to the room - an EQ after everything.

In general for me, once my presets sound the way I want, the adjustment eq per room or venue makes my tones sound how I want without adjusting the presets.

I think adjustment to the room is something most people who have sound issues is missing. We didn’t really do that with traditional amps, but we’ve all had our amazing real amps at some gig where nothing sounded right no matter what we did with the BMT knobs. Even real amps and cabs can/should be adjusted to the room, but the limited range of BMT can’t do it sometimes, and the BMT creates the tone and not always the EQ.

One EQ adjustment can make all tones sit where it should. It’s a new skill to learn, but pretty easy to figure out over time. In theory, in my experience, you shouldn’t ever have to adjust individual presets or scenes if they already sound how you want. (This is different from changing gain or tone knobs to continue to develop your tone and preference.)

This vid by Dave Rat outlines the concept (he mentions 3 EQ areas, but mainly focuses on the 2 I mentioned). It takes a bit to get into the concept but the intro is good to watch.

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This. Every single time

I've had the privilege to work with some of the world's best FOH engineers and they (re)tune the PA system to every venue. Usually with pink noise and sometimes pumping a recording of the previous night's show through the system etc to make sure they're compensating for whatever the Venue's acoustic properties add/subtract to the overall mix. This can be done with wedges as well using a good microphone mounted at the height of the musician to make sure the wedges are also consistent night to night. (If the band isn't using IEM)

With FAS gear, you're just doing this for your guitar sound.

If you want to know how much a room affects your sound, just take an acoustic guitar and play it every room of your house, then take it and play it outside. This is what a room can add/subtract.
 
Gold standards: If you playing alone, Barefoot MM27s, with others the Meyers.

I have six CLRs because they are good enough, cheap enough and I can leave around town without fear.
 
REDD said:
Try my IR's. Pan Big 5 and Big four 20% right and left and then put the Marshall straight up in the middle and back it down to -10db. Works for Metal and everything else I do.
The moment I went FRFR is when I was using four KRANK cabs and a VHT poweramp live and listened to the mic'd sound thru the P.A. and then the direct sound with Ir's and then I knew I had to switch.
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Dammit REDD ! These cab irs are the Best ! I've been down the IR hole for two years and never got close to these 3 here,
I followed your instruction and haven't' looked at another IR Since... Thanks for pulling me out of the IR hole..
 
Dickie Fredericks said:
LOL One of my oldest and best friends is their sound guy and department chair at Full Sail.
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We had, at one point; like 4 of his songs in our setlist.





:oops:



:D

Super fun to play for the right crowd. I tried to add this one when it was on that Kingsman(?) soundtrack but everyone shot me down :grimacing:
 
I have one cabinet of the same make and model used by my duo and another matching the system used by the casual band I gig with and I EQ my live patches at gig volume through those cabinets. On bigger stages and for other gigs I just ask for guitar in my vocal monitor as I've never bonded with the dedicated FRFR amp. If it's a gig that really needs that much volume on stage, I'm likely going to carry a tube amp anyway.

I mean a huge part of what I love about Fractal is the freedom of being "amp-less" on stage. For me it just helps me keep everything simple and focused.
 
ajalias said:
Dammit REDD ! These cab irs are the Best ! I've been down the IR hole for two years and never got close to these 3 here,
I followed your instruction and haven't' looked at another IR Since... Thanks for pulling me out of the IR hole..
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So glad to hear it! I was hoping they could help!
 
vika12 said:
Like the OP, I tried the Atomic CLR NEO and Xitone Active wedge. I ended up selling them. Instead, I run my Fractal through a Quilter Tone Block 202 with its FRFR voicing. I've run it through the front of the amp and also through the amp's FX return, with Fractal amp and cab modelling turned ON. I have a stack of NEO 12" cabs -- a Celestion Copperback and a Celestion BNS-300. Both sound good but I prefer the FX Return route. IMO, this sounds and feels better than FRFR solutions.
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PS, I want to amend this by saying that at gigs I've found that I need to run the FM3 into the front end of the Quilter to get the volume I need. Running it into the FX return bypasses the Quilter's gain control which provides substantial additional volume.
 
vika12 said:
PS, I want to amend this by saying that at gigs I've found that I need to run the FM3 into the front end of the Quilter to get the volume I need. Running it into the FX return bypasses the Quilter's gain control which provides substantial additional volume.
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Are you using +4 for the Output level?
 
been running a Fm3 for about a month and have got great direct results at home. ran numerous times at club jams using other peoples monitors, normal stage monitors or Headrush 105s (cheap and popular) Got a QSC-CP12 yesterday and have been playing with IRs with it turned up good and have found the cab impedance makes a pretty profound difference in tone and feel with it, more so than it did with normal studio monitors going direct.
 
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