Default AMP/CAB settings muddy compared to Youtube Video?

[cole lewis]

Earwax blockage. Solution: bypass the CAB block.

What was that you said? I didn't quite catch that..

 

[Randall Smith]

Hello,
I’ve been an Axe Fx user since the Ultra days, owned the II and now the III. Been loving the units since day one! I typically just use it in the studio and always just pleased with the unit.
I recently came across a YouTube video () where Paul creates a basic tone pretty quick. Sounds great! I’m always interested into watching videos like this whether basic or advanced just cause I always end up learning something new.
That being said, I really liked the tone Paul got in the video pretty quickly so I figured I’d build the patch alongside the video to save for future use. I gotta say though, the sound I was getting was quite muddy or tubby compared to his video where I felt he had a clear/tight tone.
It made me start to check a whole bunch of things to see where my chain was different from his and went down a bit of a rabbit hole of forum posts. People mentioning about their interface, monitors, guitars, etc for what could contribute to this. My chain - I was using my 52 RI Tele, then into the axe fx, monitoring through Adam S4X’s + Sennheiser HD6xx’s. I typically run the signal through my Apollo X8 with whatever plugins, but in this case I wanted to match him so I didn’t put anything. Even plugging headphones direct into the headphone Jack didn’t change anything. Tried different headphones, same issue.
I did notice that he was on a slightly earlier firmware (fw 20.01) and I’m on 20.03 (was there a big jump there?). I have the same IR as him, put the same settings. Granted, guitars are different but would that make that big of a difference with such a low end muddy-Ness? I don’t think I have a POS Tele compared to his but I definitely know it’s not exactly the greatest either. I even reached out asking if he’s running anything after the axe Fx (EQ, Filtering, etc) which he is not.
I ended up just slapping a UAD API channel strip, rolling up the bottom end til about 80 hz and giving a little top end boost around 8k. Matched much better but still very puzzled why there was that big a difference. Any thoughts?

(Btw, I probably make it sound like this is a game changer difference and that I'm not happy with my Axe Fx, which both are far from the truth but just wanted to share my thoughts and see if I'm missing something here)

I will say this. When I monitor at home at low volumes, my presets all sound dull and lifeless. When I play these presets out, they sounds fine. Listening volume has quite a bit to do with how we perceive sound and frequency response.

Randall

 

[RevDrucifer]

There’s an aspect that doesn’t get brought up much but I think it’s worth mentioning; sometimes you’ve got to ’lean into’ certain amps/tones to have them deliver the tones you’re expecting from them. I think this is what hangs people up with the “this guy was using the same preset, guitar and pickups but it doesn’t sound like that when I play it.”.

I was learning a Queensryche tune this week and made a quick preset using a boosted Marshall, got it in the ballpark and started playing, realized the palm muted notes were sounding flubby and didn’t have the attack I’d expect from a boosted Marshall, but instead of tweaking my way out of it, I tweaked my picking hand/attack and it did the trick. I just had to lay into the strings a bit more and ‘work for it’.

The same holds true for actual amps. Sometimes what we expect an amp to do/sound like doesn’t meet up with how we play and it’s a marriage between the two that delivers what we’re wanting to hear.

 

[jyflorida]

I've had a few things work for me in the past, depending on the amp / cab combo I'm using. In the Output EQ tab, I'll cut back on 62hz and 125hz. On the Ideal tab, the Cut switch can work wonders, then adjust the bass to taste. The Cab block also has a Low Cut plus the Low Slope which can temper things as well.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

For comparison, I use good quality headphones almost always and only adjust EQ once when I set the amp cab like I would the real amp. When I connect to my cabs the presets sound great. It’s very much about trusting our systems.

When I do adjust it, I drop in a GEQ or PEQ compensating curve just before the OUT 1 block to flatten the particular headphones I’m using, adjust, remove the EQ compensation and save the preset.

The volume used when adjusting EQ is extremely important, it needs to be 90+ dB otherwise the Fletcher-Munson effect will kick in and skew our perception of the highs and lows.

A couple months ago we had a long thread helping a user deal with a similar situation, muddy sound, and it turned out his monitors were placed wrong, so confirm their placement. The monitoring speakers must be pointing at our ears and be at the appropriate height and distance from us and walls and corners. There are so many potential issues in a typical bedroom that can affect the sound, and each on its own might be minor, but when combined can really mess up the sound. Headphones help negate their effects but even headphones have their own problems and need to be compensated, at least for that one step.

Our brain adjusts to the sound and can get fatigued, and, over time gets used to sounds that might not necessarily be EQed right, causing us to unintentionally skew the sound one way or another because we assume it’s normal and “right”. Getting away from the rig and letting the brain reset helps.

And, as others have said, we NEED to see an example of a preset that doesn’t sound right. That allows all of us to work from the same starting point with a common reference point. Without that we’re forced to ask questions again and again. A photo of your monitoring station can help too.

 

[Michael R]

There’s an aspect that doesn’t get brought up much but I think it’s worth mentioning; sometimes you’ve got to ’lean into’ certain amps/tones to have them deliver the tones you’re expecting from them. I think this is what hangs people up with the “this guy was using the same preset, guitar and pickups but it doesn’t sound like that when I play it.”.

I was learning a Queensryche tune this week and made a quick preset using a boosted Marshall, got it in the ballpark and started playing, realized the palm muted notes were sounding flubby and didn’t have the attack I’d expect from a boosted Marshall, but instead of tweaking my way out of it, I tweaked my picking hand/attack and it did the trick. I just had to lay into the strings a bit more and ‘work for it’.

The same holds true for actual amps. Sometimes what we expect an amp to do/sound like doesn’t meet up with how we play and it’s a marriage between the two that delivers what we’re wanting to hear.

Yep, tone is in the hands! Many guys don't believe it.....but it is there

 

[Jason Scott]

I have the same IR as him, put the same settings. Granted, guitars are different but would that make that big of a difference with such a low end muddy-Ness?

How is anyone supposed to know without hearing a sample? Can you post one?

 

[cole lewis]

To sum up. There are a thousand variables in guitar tone that result in "muddy" tone, and the Axe FX also happens to have more tools to fight that phenomenon than any other device on the market.

My personal comment / experience. I have a Carvin CT6 with Fishman Classic pickups in it and a Kiesel Crescent with their Polarity active pickup set. Literally just these two guitars into the same preset, the Kiesel on a preset made for the Carvin will sound like it has a blanket over it and wayyyyy too much bass. Point being the variables don't even have to be from the Axe FX itself.

 

[Piing]

We are all

Hello,
I’ve been an Axe Fx user since the Ultra days, owned the II and now the III. Been loving the units since day one! I typically just use it in the studio and always just pleased with the unit.
I recently came across a YouTube video () where Paul creates a basic tone pretty quick. Sounds great! I’m always interested into watching videos like this whether basic or advanced just cause I always end up learning something new.
That being said, I really liked the tone Paul got in the video pretty quickly so I figured I’d build the patch alongside the video to save for future use. I gotta say though, the sound I was getting was quite muddy or tubby compared to his video where I felt he had a clear/tight tone.
It made me start to check a whole bunch of things to see where my chain was different from his and went down a bit of a rabbit hole of forum posts. People mentioning about their interface, monitors, guitars, etc for what could contribute to this. My chain - I was using my 52 RI Tele, then into the axe fx, monitoring through Adam S4X’s + Sennheiser HD6xx’s. I typically run the signal through my Apollo X8 with whatever plugins, but in this case I wanted to match him so I didn’t put anything. Even plugging headphones direct into the headphone Jack didn’t change anything. Tried different headphones, same issue.
I did notice that he was on a slightly earlier firmware (fw 20.01) and I’m on 20.03 (was there a big jump there?). I have the same IR as him, put the same settings. Granted, guitars are different but would that make that big of a difference with such a low end muddy-Ness? I don’t think I have a POS Tele compared to his but I definitely know it’s not exactly the greatest either. I even reached out asking if he’s running anything after the axe Fx (EQ, Filtering, etc) which he is not.
I ended up just slapping a UAD API channel strip, rolling up the bottom end til about 80 hz and giving a little top end boost around 8k. Matched much better but still very puzzled why there was that big a difference. Any thoughts?

(Btw, I probably make it sound like this is a game changer difference and that I'm not happy with my Axe Fx, which both are far from the truth but just wanted to share my thoughts and see if I'm missing something here)

I've started following the steps of that video.

At 3:00 he checks the direct tone of his guitar. Just a IN block directly to OUT block. My S540FM sounds as good as his. Different character compared to his Tele, but not lacking clarity or brilliance.

At 3:35 he plays with a default Amp (Dirty Shirley) and a default CAB (Factory1). That's where my tone doesn't sound even remotely like him. It is really muddy. There must be something different at his settings or he must have tweaked the preset, because it sounds totally different from what I get here.

At 4:40 he selects User CAB YA MRSH 412 M25 57vOA-1. I select the same. My tone is still dark. Muddy and nasal

I am not following that video further from there because I do not want to waste time. There is something weird.

You have been using the Axe-FX since the Ultra. You should know how to move forward without the need to follow that particular video, which is also very basic for an experienced user. There are many other good videos and good presets there

I attach the basic preset, as made at that video

 

[Piing]

An interesting question, though: is the default amp with the default cab supposed to sound so bad?

 

[squealie]

The Axe-FX is not muddy by itself. Start by installing the same firmware as him, use the same components as him, play with the same technique, and you should get the same results. The only variable in this equation that doesn't change is the Axe-FX hardware.

On one occasion people commented that Leon Todd presets didn't sound the same as his YouTube videos, even using the same guitar. Leon shared the raw tracks of his guitar for reamping, and then they admitted that it was exactly the same tone. It was his playing that made the difference!

Wild! I struggle with most presets in that they seem to be on the muddier side when I play them. To the point where I started to think something was wrong in my chain.

Leon's presets (downloaded, installed, manually copied) are what convinced me that I was getting precisely the same result to my DAW.

So yeah. I'd agree. The converse seems to back up this assertion.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

I will say this. When I monitor at home at low volumes, my presets all sound dull and lifeless. When I play these presets out, they sounds fine. Listening volume has quite a bit to do with how we perceive sound and frequency response.

Randall

yes! A few dB too low will turn any great sound into fizzy garbage. Also applies to physical amps. It's all about the presentation.

 

[tysonlt]

EDIT: SORRY! Just saw new posts and that a preset is already uploaded. Perhaps upload some recordings if possible?

Yeah upload a preset. People here are very generous with help but we need the preset or it’s hard to kinda guess. Even a recording if you can!

(The ultimate is a: preset, b: a recording and c: a dry track of your guitar. Then there are no unknown variables! But even just a preset is really helpful)

 

[BBN]

Whats the Q on the cut? Is it a hard cut? I'd never cut so high unless its just a couple dBs and I'd probably look for a surgical Q to just affect the problem frequency. Granted thats where the mud lives, but all the balls in heavier tones and the warmth live there, too.

You may already be using this feature without even knowing it.
Example - select the JMP1 - OD1 amp....go look at the default Input EQ that is set.
I assume Cliff defaults it this way because there is something in the actual amp (or rack, in this case) that is enabling that same high cut.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

You may already be using this feature without even knowing it.
Example - select the JMP1 - OD1 amp....go look at the default Input EQ that is set.
I assume Cliff defaults it this way because there is something in the actual amp (or rack, in this case) that is enabling that same high cut.

I honestly never even look at the input EQ, if I ever adjust anything beyond the amp controls I gravitate to the 5 band mark style EQ and that’s rare. I tend to pepper with amp controls as well as high and low cuts in the cab block. If something here sounded muddy, I’d probably start with a low cut in the cab block there.

 

[indeloon85]

We are all


I've started following the steps of that video.

At 3:00 he checks the direct tone of his guitar. Just a IN block directly to OUT block. My S540FM sounds as good as his. Different character compared to his Tele, but not lacking clarity or brilliance.

At 3:35 he plays with a default Amp (Dirty Shirley) and a default CAB (Factory1). That's where my tone doesn't sound even remotely like him. It is really muddy. There must be something different at his settings or he must have tweaked the preset, because it sounds totally different from what I get here.

At 4:40 he selects User CAB YA MRSH 412 M25 57vOA-1. I select the same. My tone is still dark. Muddy and nasal

I am not following that video further from there because I do not want to waste time. There is something weird.

You have been using the Axe-FX since the Ultra. You should know how to move forward without the need to follow that particular video, which is also very basic for an experienced user. There are many other good videos and good presets there

I attach the basic preset, as made at that video

Thank you for taking the time to do this! Sorry I haven’t been back to my axe Fx to experiment any further. It looks like you arrived at the same conclusion.
Really it’s nothing that can’t be easily solved. I just like seeing some of these videos that can sometimes turn me onto new workflows (like pinning the IR menu was something new I learned from it).
That being said, I think this doesn’t need to be gone through any further. I’m satisfied with the unit either way and can make it sound pleasing to me with one or two more tweaks than the video which is perfectly fine with me!
Thank you again!

 

[Piing]

I've gone back to that, and I got the same result: a muddy tone. Your concern was totally legit, although the formulation was a little bit confusing.

So, the accurate questions of this thread are: Are the Axe-FX III AMP/CAB default settings muddy? and Why do these AMP/CAB default settings sound good at that YouTube video but not at our Axe-FX III?

Not a big issue, but big curiosity

 

[Sashman]

I was curious and I tried this today.
With a Telecaster (I had to borrow one) it does sound similar to the YouTube video when I listening to my Studio Monitors or Headphones.

 

[Piing]

I was curious and I tried this today.
With a Telecaster (I had to borrow one) it does sound similar to the YouTube video when I listening to my Studio Monitors or Headphones.

That is surprising. I've tried with a Tom Anderson Drop Top, a Ibanez S540FM, a j.custom, and a Strat with EMG SA. The difference with the YouTube video is like day and night (a really dark and somber night). Are Teles that much different to the rest of the universe?

Anyone else has tried it?

 

[laxu]

I've gone back to that, and I got the same result: a muddy tone. Your concern was totally legit, although the formulation was a little bit confusing.

So, the accurate questions of this thread are: Are the Axe-FX III AMP/CAB default settings muddy? and Why do these AMP/CAB default settings sound good at that YouTube video but not at our Axe-FX III?

Not a big issue, but big curiosity

Note that some presets might be dialed in to sound good at band volumes so they won't sound right at low volumes.

If you hear the same presets in videos and they sound fine to you, then no, they are not muddy and your issues are what I detailed earlier in this thread.

But if you are having issues with stock presets, just build your own or tweak them to your liking. I've had good results out of multiple modelers and I largely ignore factory presets. I don't feel I do anything particularly fancy in my presets. My go to process is to pick an amp, find cab sims I like with it (usually just SM57+160 mixed together or panned) and then tweak the amp block settings, adjust cab block high/low cuts and add fx.