They all sound different (monitor dilemma) - Final verdict

WbbS

WbbS

Experienced
EDIT: Please, read the full post, is not about which one is better and which I should buy.

EDIT 2: I’ll have the Adam and the Yamaha at my home to try in my room.

EDIT 3: FINAL VERDICT here in my last post: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...tor-dilemma-final-verdict.180747/post-2214354

I'm considering an upgrade to my studio monitors.

However, the difference I hear between the monitors I have (Yamaha) and the ones I'm considering buying (Adam) is huge and it got me thinking about how amp models and presets are created.

Listen to this video, the "metal" part, the Yamaha's sound much clearer and focused on the high frequencies. The Adam's seem to have cut offs on the highs or at least don't have as much treble present.

​



So I'm thinking:
  • if a model/preset is created on the Adam, it will definitely sound too strident on the Yamaha (and this happens to me knowing, fo example, that @2112 uses Adams, and his presets sounds too bright on my Yamaha)
  • if it is created on the Yamaha it will inevitably sound dark on the Adam.

That said, two questions:
  1. is it possible to know which reference monitors are used in @FractalAudio studios? If they are Adam I will find everything brighter than it is intended to sound.
  2. To compensate that, is it possible (a future "wish" post) to add in the OUT block a selection of the EQ curves of the most common studio monitors so as to facilitate univocal listening?
 
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Sashman said:
This!
Never buy speakers or monitors related on YouTube videos etc.
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I know, it was my premise, but I can't do otherwise, and anyway my dilemma is about something else now: if they have such different EQs, I think you need a way to figure out how to set a baseline and hear model/presets as they were intended.
 
Yeah the Adam by the way is very bassy, I prefer the sound of the Neumann KH 120 which are very neutral.
Genlec 8050a or 8350a is a great but expensive choice too.
 
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Gl4th said:
I know, it was my premise, but I can't do otherwise, and anyway my dilemma is about something else now: if they have such different EQs, I think you need a way to figure out how to set a baseline and hear model/presets as they were intended.
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Remember that the room they are in and where the speakers are placed heavily influence the sound too. That's where the dip switches on studio monitors, acoustic panels, room correction software etc come in.

Many of us don't have a dedicated studio space with great acoustics in the first place so we are at the whim of the peculiarities of that even with great studio monitors.

As an example, I use a pair of Genelec M040 speakers. They have performed very well in tests for accuracy etc. But because of space constraints in my apartment, I have to put one of them in a corner and another about half a meter from the wall. The room also has a very distinct 130 Hz boost that can make things boomy without correcting for it. So I use the dip switches in the back of the monitors as well as the Sonarworks Reference ID software to measure and correct the room response. These two things make a noticeable difference in the sound as it removes boomy lows for example.

I hope to buy a house this year to have a better space for all this.

PS. I do not recommend Sonarworks because their software is quite buggy and their support has been lackluster. If anyone knows another company that offers this sort of software (room correction via IRs for not only DAW use but also for general audio in Windows/MacOS) I'd love to try them.
 
laxu said:
PS. I do not recommend Sonarworks because their software is quite buggy and their support has been lackluster.
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Why do you say so? Sonarworks worked wonderfully in my case though i convert the correction curves into ir's and use with axe too its possible on this too, . The correction is pretty dam accurate for me though, helped me nail some troubles straight up.

Sonarworks helps on windows too i have it on everytime i use my monitors
 
jin1995x said:
Why do you say so? Sonarworks worked wonderfully in my case though i convert the correction curves into ir's and use with axe too its possible on this too, . The correction is pretty dam accurate for me though, helped me nail some troubles straight up.
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I have used their Reference 4 software and it would crash for me often when coming out of sleep. No big deal, could use RestartOnCrash software to relaunch it. The newer Reference ID is even more of a mess:
  • It doesn't crash but it often just does not work when my computer comes out of sleep. I need to swap presets back and forth for it to start applying correction again. Happens on both Win10 and MacOS Monterey.
  • Often when launching it forgets its window size and either blows up on my screen or is unusably small.
  • On Windows even its damn tray icon often just disappears after launch.
  • If you use the Windows Audio Processing Object method for applying corrections, sometimes it will just completely fail to work or it will cause the sound to become progressively distorted out of the blue until the audio interface and Sonarworks is restarted.
  • On MacOS it has severe difficulties picking up my wireless Jabra headphones that I use occasionally (mainly for work calls but sometimes would like to listen music with correction through them), often flashing briefly with them and then just saying "please add output", with no option for the Jabra.
When it actually works, it works very well for its intended purpose. The VST plugin usually works but the desktop software is a mess and subpar programming. I've got several tickets open with Sonarworks and most of them haven't been resolved in the past year. Sonarworks is also abysmal for feature requests, e.g. adding keyboard shortcuts for switching profiles.

Do you have any tips for creating IRs from the correction curves? I tried doing this in Reaper but could not get the IRs working. I made a sweep using Voxengo deconvolver, added that as track 1, added the VST plugin of Sonarworks on that track, then added another track 2 that receives the output of track 1. Then I export track 2 and run it through Voxengo to generate the IR using the sweep and recorded track. I'm not quite sure why it doesn't work but all I got is noise with that.
 
Gl4th said:
Listen to this video, the "metal" part, the Yamaha's sound much clearer and focused on the high frequencies. The Adam's seem to have cut offs on the highs or at least don't have as much treble present.
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This is the first time I've ever read that ADAM monitors lack high end. People usually find them crispy, some even dial back the high end (there are controls at the back).
 
yek said:
This is the first time I've ever read that ADAM monitors lack high end. People usually find them crispy, some even dial back the high end (there are controls at the back).
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Have you listened to the video I posted?
There is this one as well with similar results:

 
laxu said:
I have used their Reference 4 software and it would crash for me often when coming out of sleep. No big deal, could use RestartOnCrash software to relaunch it. The newer Reference ID is even more of a mess:
  • It doesn't crash but it often just does not work when my computer comes out of sleep. I need to swap presets back and forth for it to start applying correction again. Happens on both Win10 and MacOS Monterey.
  • Often when launching it forgets its window size and either blows up on my screen or is unusably small.
  • On Windows even its damn tray icon often just disappears after launch.
  • If you use the Windows Audio Processing Object method for applying corrections, sometimes it will just completely fail to work or it will cause the sound to become progressively distorted out of the blue until the audio interface and Sonarworks is restarted.
  • On MacOS it has severe difficulties picking up my wireless Jabra headphones that I use occasionally (mainly for work calls but sometimes would like to listen music with correction through them), often flashing briefly with them and then just saying "please add output", with no option for the Jabra.
When it actually works, it works very well for its intended purpose. The VST plugin usually works but the desktop software is a mess and subpar programming. I've got several tickets open with Sonarworks and most of them haven't been resolved in the past year. Sonarworks is also abysmal for feature requests, e.g. adding keyboard shortcuts for switching profiles.

Do you have any tips for creating IRs from the correction curves? I tried doing this in Reaper but could not get the IRs working. I made a sweep using Voxengo deconvolver, added that as track 1, added the VST plugin of Sonarworks on that track, then added another track 2 that receives the output of track 1. Then I export track 2 and run it through Voxengo to generate the IR using the sweep and recorded track. I'm not quite sure why it doesn't work but all I got is noise with that.
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Okay i have used the newer sound id version, and not reference 4 so i cannot comment on that. Sucks if they are that bad at handling tickets.

i'll pm you in sometime for the ir creation.
 
Gl4th said:
It's not "the best" thread. I'm not asking for that.
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room correction software in addition to accurate monitors do help, apart from treating your room.

Make sure your monitors are decoupled from the desk so as to not pick vibrations. In the video the adams are used on the foam , there can be some smearing in of audio, so i would not base my judgement on the video.

Opinions of people about monitors often reflect on what it sounds in their setup / room, a room condition has a tremendous tremendous effect on how monitors sound.

I would go with adams if i were you, you will find very positive response about them, overall from axe 3 users .

I dont have them. but will get them at some point if need be.
 
yek said:
IMHO it makes no sense at all listening to / reviewing studio monitors through YouTube recordings.
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Gl4th said:
I know, it was my premise, but I can't do otherwise, and anyway my dilemma is about something else now: if they have such different EQs, I think you need a way to figure out how to set a baseline and hear model/presets as they were intended.
Click to expand...
Anyway, 2 different videos give similar results, Yamaha sound brighter than the Adam. And this is exactly why I'm considering to buy the Adam, I find the high frequencies too intrusive.
 
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jin1995x said:
room correction software in addition to accurate monitors do help, apart from treating your room.

Make sure your monitors are decoupled from the desk so as to not pick vibrations. In the video the adams are used on the foam , there can be some smearing in of audio, so i would not base my judgement on the video.

Opinions of people about monitors often reflect on what it sounds in their setup / room, a room condition has a tremendous tremendous effect on how monitors sound.

I would go with adams if i were you, you will find very positive response about them, overall from axe 3 users .

I dont have them. but will get them at some point if need be.
Click to expand...
Actually I'm already sold, but as I wrote, my dilemma is about something else now: if they have such different EQs, I think you need a way to figure out how to set a baseline and hear model/presets as they were intended.
 
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