Two night ago, about $20K worth of gear stolen from trailer.

[Dave Merrill]

Well, bottom line is...I don't want the center piece of my rig to be a floor stomp pedal...so, it'd have to be the III....
Guess I'll just eat it and no longer have functionality of the MFC 101. I'll be able to control the box but won't have two way communication on it....
OR I can do what always happens..Cliff updates the hardware and insures the old hardware add ons won't work..and I'm screwed for more money to be able to use it...CHA CHING
I'm truly lost on how the FC 12 is as utile as the MFC...

Who cares if your rig centers around a floor pedal? A Rat it's not. It's a modern, highly capable, space-efficient, and arguably great-sounding choice you can make. If it makes sense to you and feels right, it's fine.

That said, the III is quite an amazing tool

 

[Admin M@]

I'm truly lost on how the FC 12 is as utile as the MFC...

It's so much more utile than making the case that it is not futile ;-)

• Nine User Layouts = 108 switch functions (vs max 34 on MFC)
• Views means even the smaller FC6 or FM3 can access all of the above.
• Assignable press and hold DOUBLES the above functions.
• Many many more switch functions to choose from
• Per switch colors
• Per-preset switching
• Daisy Chain expandability
• On-stage/Offstage Cloning
• Dynamic mini display labels
• Scene/Channel Inc/Dec loops
• "Toggle" functions (Preset/Scene etc.)
• FASLINK II works across the entire product family
• Song/Setlist Mode (in Alpha testing now)
• Control Switches
• Layout Links
• I could go on!!

 

[HereToday]

Neither did I my friend...but....Berhinger is trash...EXCEPT...the X32 stuff which is in use in major venues doing national acts.
The MIDAS version is the same thing in a different box....may have Antares as part of the processing too....Same company...

Well, apparently someone at Line six played a fractal somewhere along the line and they came up with the helix....
I have a link above to a demonstration of the Helix and the same exact preset on the III....I personally, with my eyes covered couldn't tell where they were switching between the devices.

I'm just joshing you mostly. We all need to play what inspires us, But, I do hope you find a way to stay in the Fractal camp!

 

[Rex]

I'm truly lost on how the FC 12 is as utile as the MFC...

@Admin M@ beat me to it, but the FC-12 is light years beyond what the MFC-101 can do.

- Just the ability to redefine and relabel switches automatically is a game-changer. I can pull up a preset and have all the footswitches I need for that preset, with custom labels on each switch (think Intro, Verse, Chorus, Break, Solo 1, Solo 2, Shimmer, Rotary...), without the clutter of a dozen extra footswitches that I'll never use in that preset.

- I can set up one footswitch to kick in a boost, turn off Chorus, and increase Delay Mix by 47%. All at once.

- I can string two of them together to make an FC-24. Or put the second one below stage so the tech can switch me while I play. WIth the Axe-FX III, I can make an FC-48 if I want to.

- If I look down and see an ocean of green footswitches, I know I'm on the preset-select page, without reading anything.


I'll stop now...

 

[USMC_Trev]

I was sympathetic, even with the moronic trailer security measures, until the OP started crapping on Cliff and Fractal for how much he’s spent on his gear and now I’m thinking about the crappy security situation, lack of insurance and overall stupidity for not realizing it was probably neighborhood people who have had their eye on your stuff for some time now.
Mostly annoyed on deflectping the blame and anger towards Cliff and FAS. How dare you. If you’re going to dangle steaks in front of the bears, dont blame the butcher or the bears for your own stupidity. Calling it like I see it. Blocked.

 

[USMC_Trev]

Had I woken up...this would have been a very different story...My response comes at 1148 feet per second.

Ohh tough guy. Ever actually drawn down on another human, ready to end them? Let me know when you’ve ever been about to shoot an old man and hid grandson because you couldn’t see their hands and were approaching your vehicle a little too quickly. Until then, shut the hell up.

 

[ak49climber]

MK XL
The biggest piss me off is...the MFC 101 I spent close to $1,000 on is worthless with a III and I'm not looking to purchase someone else's issues.
I have NEW PRODUCT replacement cost coverage...so I want new...just pisses me off because that wasn't an accident of design..it's a plan...so you have to purchase more gear.

I use my MFC with the Axe Fx III. You can’t get the names to display for the presets but it certainly works quite well.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Cliff updates the hardware and insures the old hardware add ons won't work..and I'm screwed for more money to be able to use it...CHA CHING

So, just so it’s clear, you are saying Cliff started Fractal and designed the past hardware to get you to buy it, then designed succeeding generations of hardware and eventually changed the foot controller architecture, just to get more money from you when your equipment was stolen leaving you with the old foot controller?

Damn, he’s good.

Or, could it be that he improved the technology and provided a way that you can continue to use your controller, in spite of it being outdated, albeit at a reduced capability compared to the current generation, thereby saving you money if you choose to reuse your existing unit?

Damn, he’s good!

Call whoever carries your inland-marine policy, give them the police report number, and order replacement gear.

 

[dr bonkers]

I have not...I have dumped an enormous amount of money into Cliff's pocket since 2009....and for that... I'm treated to the never ending...
IMPROVED HARDWARE that they insure is not backward compatable with previous versions so you now have to spend another $1,000 to operate the damned thing....
I don't sit at a console all day creating the next new amazing sounds...I'm a casnino/wedding band guitarist...

I can no longer justify yet ANOTHER almost $3600 to replace what was stolen.

I played through the rack mounted Helix for two hours....
Two things immediately came to mind.
1. I don't have to tweak this preset.
2. the levels are consistent from preset to preset....NOT a feature that has EVER existed on an Axe.
AND I can use my MFC 101 that wasn't stolen, with the Helix.

There's a few things to unpack here:

1. Regarding presets not being forward compatible between the the Axe-FX II and III, that's not entirely true. If you use FracTool, you can get the job done with a little bit of tweaking to the drive, amp, and compressor blocks. When the III was released, I ended up needing to do that for a few hundred presets and it took me a few weeks to do that and was well worth it.

2. When I used to support the Helix, I tried to recreate the same presets in there and it was a real chore because the comparable signal routing and tweakability of block was non-existent in Helix and a bit of a sonic compromise. Hence why I ended up selling the Helix and stopped supporting it with presets.

2.a. updating Helix firmware is also not nearly as painless or uneventful as updating FW in FAS products. The fact in 2021 many users can brick a Helix and need to send it back to Line 6 to fix for the mere act of updating firmware getting the steps wrong or having a voltage ripple would be comical if it wasn't so sad.

3. Regarding being into FAS for $14,000 in gear purchases, if you are an early adopter of digital hardware, that's your cost of feeding GAS. Digital hardware always takes a hit on the resale market when the next generation comes out. FAS hardware tends to retain its value better than Line6 and a lot of other hardware makers if you compare new prices on first release to current used valuations.

That said, if the Helix works for you and you can deal with all the compromises of its workflow when recreating all your presets, then enjoy your journey.

 

[mwd]

I've never seen a piece of Fractal gear that was not sellable. FAS holds the most resale value of any music gear I own that was manufactured in the last decade. The MFC wouldn't be something you would be 'stuck' with. Additionally it's a MIDI controller so I'm thinking you could always control lights, etc. Even though it's a bit late there are little GPS Tiles that folks tuck in a guitar case (or guitar), embed in a rack case, hide in a trailer, etc., to track property that was stolen.

 

[grumpops]

Helix is available in rack format.

Yes, that's what I played through at the Guit Center.

 

[grumpops]

@Admin M@ beat me to it, but the FC-12 is light years beyond what the MFC-101 can do.

- Just the ability to redefine and relabel switches automatically is a game-changer. I can pull up a preset and have all the footswitches I need for that preset, with custom labels on each switch (think Intro, Verse, Chorus, Break, Solo 1, Solo 2, Shimmer, Rotary...), without the clutter of a dozen extra footswitches that I'll never use in that preset.

- I can set up one footswitch to kick in a boost, turn off Chorus, and increase Delay Mix by 47%. All at once.

- I can string two of them together to make an FC-24. Or put the second one below stage so the tech can switch me while I play. WIth the Axe-FX III, I can make an FC-48 if I want to.

- If I look down and see an ocean of green footswitches, I know I'm on the preset-select page, without reading anything.


I'll stop now...

wait..what..
So, with the FC12, you can have all the buttons do different things in DIFFERENT presets?
Now I'm listening.
I had the MFC set up so there were dedicated switches to probably 6 effects, a solo boost (my biggest bitch about every Axe I've had...getting presets to be equal volume) and the bottom row was bank up/down and five presets. and four or five of them were modifiers for a drive pedal, and tuner and a couple of other small items.

So, if the FC12 allows me to hyave each preset with the buttons all doing things specific to that preset...
Damn it all..the money...sheesh...lol

 

[grumpops]

I've never seen a piece of Fractal gear that was not sellable. FAS holds the most resale value of any music gear I own that was manufactured in the last decade. The MFC wouldn't be something you would be 'stuck' with. Additionally it's a MIDI controller so I'm thinking you could always control lights, etc. Even though it's a bit late there are little GPS Tiles that folks tuck in a guitar case (or guitar), embed in a rack case, hide in a trailer, etc., to track property that was stolen.

I know what tile is..never thought about putting it on gear pieces...cool.

 

[grumpops]

There's a few things to unpack here:

1. Regarding presets not being forward compatible between the the Axe-FX II and III, that's not entirely true. If you use FracTool, you can get the job done with a little bit of tweaking to the drive, amp, and compressor blocks. When the III was released, I ended up needing to do that for a few hundred presets and it took me a few weeks to do that and was well worth it.

2. When I used to support the Helix, I tried to recreate the same presets in there and it was a real chore because the comparable signal routing and tweakability of block was non-existent in Helix and a bit of a sonic compromise. Hence why I ended up selling the Helix and stopped supporting it with presets.

2.a. updating Helix firmware is also not nearly as painless or uneventful as updating FW in FAS products. The fact in 2021 many users can brick a Helix and need to send it back to Line 6 to fix for the mere act of updating firmware getting the steps wrong or having a voltage ripple would be comical if it wasn't so sad.

3. Regarding being into FAS for $14,000 in gear purchases, if you are an early adopter of digital hardware, that's your cost of feeding GAS. Digital hardware always takes a hit on the resale market when the next generation comes out. FAS hardware tends to retain its value better than Line6 and a lot of other hardware makers if you compare new prices on first release to current used valuations.

That said, if the Helix works for you and you can deal with all the compromises of its workflow when recreating all your presets, then enjoy your journey.

You nailed it friend..I was a TUBE SNOB most of my life...Marshall or nothing.
Then in 2009 I saw a band, a three piece...I was lost where all the insane sounds I was hearing came from....The guy showed me his rig and the centerpeice of that rig was an Ultra I......
That day I became a tone snob...
Found a 16 yr old shoegazer to buy my TSL 100 with one cab for $1600...got the Ultra I and a Mesa 20:20 Power amp and fed that to the Angled Marshall Cab I didn't sell...I was shocked at two things immediately.
The sound of the Ultra and the power of that tiny amp....only down side.
Marshall Cabs are prone to "FART" on palm mutes when using a modeler.
So, sold that cab...got a blackstar 2X12...loved it...
Then wanted a smaller footprint..sold the blackstar cab and got this Fender Champ 100 with a good clean channel....that was that.
I was happy and not even considering the III at that time...and the III's been out just long enough now that if I buy one, the IV will be out a month later....lol

 

[grumpops]

I was sympathetic, even with the moronic trailer security measures, until the OP started crapping on Cliff and Fractal for how much he’s spent on his gear and now I’m thinking about the crappy security situation, lack of insurance and overall stupidity for not realizing it was probably neighborhood people who have had their eye on your stuff for some time now.
Mostly annoyed on deflectping the blame and anger towards Cliff and FAS. How dare you. If you’re going to dangle steaks in front of the bears, dont blame the butcher or the bears for your own stupidity. Calling it like I see it. Blocked.

Lack of insurance? Seems I recall multiple times saying we're waiting on the insurance...its' a $36K claim and they aren't happy....it's taking a while.
and I didn't CRAP ON CLIFF...I made a statement of fact..sorry it twisted your knickers.
So terribly sorry no one is permitted to be frustrated in your presence great sir.

EDIT: Oh damn...mister "I have more integrity than all of you" blocked me....intellectual pussy I see.
Shame..I had plenty more adjectives for him...
TRAILER LOCKED WITH DOUBLE THICK HASPS
TRAILER BACKED UP TO A WALL
Eat sh*T asshole

 

[Mark-B]

There's a lot to be said for portability. Nine out of ten thieves prefer it! ( ...what?? ..too soon? :0) .. But, yeah ..I have been using an AX8 for playing live for as long as I have owned one - a few years now. If you're a meat and potatoes kinda guy, then you can do a lot with something much less than the AXEIII. I have one of those too, but, it stays in the Studio. If you ever think you are going to want more though, then that AXEIII is as much as most would ever need. Spendy.. including the footswitch. Less portable, too. But, the AXEIII and the FC12, with all the things you can do with that box and that footswitch - and easily - is a match made in heaven.

The FM9? I'm on the waitlist for that, to retire my AX8; only as I can share patches a lot more easily between that and the III, and the code that they share is stunning. But, it might not be available (by all reports) until rolling-towards mid to late Q2 of next year - unless you want to pay some scalper megabucks for one that is.

Helix then? If it works. It works.. Simple as that. Kinda sounds like you don't have the ability or the luxury to wait for too long before you need something. Which is shame, because I have a feeling that the FM9? ..you might be kicking yourself for not snagging one later on as they do share that same code with the AXEIII and FC.. This code is pristine.

Buy used? Done right, you could snag something temporarily and sell at little to no loss a few months later to upgrade?

Anyway. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Thieves Suck.

Santa Rules.

"Had I woken up...this would have been a very different story...My response comes at 1148 feet per second." ...funny, when I read this. First thing I thought was "That sounds like my Missus!" ..Ask any of our kids. She can move at 1148 feet per second to kick a little ass, too!!

 

[grumpops]

There's a lot to be said for portability. Nine out of ten thieves prefer it! ( ...what?? ..too soon? :0) .. But, yeah ..I have been using an AX8 for playing live for as long as I have owned one - a few years now. If you're a meat and potatoes kinda guy, then you can do a lot with something much less than the AXEIII. I have one of those too, but, it stays in the Studio. If you ever think you are going to want more though, then that AXEIII is as much as most would ever need. Spendy.. including the footswitch. Less portable, too. But, the AXEIII and the FC12, with all the things you can do with that box and that footswitch - and easily - is a match made in heaven.

The FM9? I'm on the waitlist for that, to retire my AX8; only as I can share patches a lot more easily between that and the III, and the code that they share is stunning. But, it might not be available (by all reports) until rolling-towards mid to late Q2 of next year - unless you want to pay some scalper megabucks for one that is.

Helix then? If it works. It works.. Simple as that. Kinda sounds like you don't have the ability or the luxury to wait for too long before you need something. Which is shame, because I have a feeling that the FM9? ..you might be kicking yourself for not snagging one later on as they do share that same code with the AXEIII and FC.. This code is pristine.

Buy used? Done right, you could snag something temporarily and sell at little to no loss a few months later to upgrade?

Anyway. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Thieves Suck.

Santa Rules.

"Had I woken up...this would have been a very different story...My response comes at 1148 feet per second." ...funny, when I read this. First thing I thought was "That sounds like my Missus!" ..Ask any of our kids. She can move at 1148 feet per second to kick a little ass, too!!

Muahaahaahaahaa...never never ever think a mom can't outrun a bullet if she has an ass whippin on her mind...lol
Thanks for all that.

being 100% real..WE COULD PLAY A SHOW..I have my footswitch for the Champ 100...a dirty channel, a clean channel and some effects
I already replaced the two SLX D mics...I can sing through a wired Sennheiser 935 instead of my wirless headset.
And I can use a cord for my guitar for a change...lol
My computer and guitars are NEVER stored overnight in a trailer ever...so didn't lose those.
Drummer has 6 DW acoustic kit anyway....may have a TD 50 by the time the weddins crank back up.
For a wedding of 100 or less. ONE sub is sufficient and we still have four KW 153s.
They did get two of the Macki 450s we'd use as mains in a super small setting.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

So, with the FC12, you can have all the buttons do different things in DIFFERENT presets?
Now I'm listening.

FM3/FM9/FX3/FC6/FC12 can all do that, easily.

I’ve been adjusting my FM9 layouts to make them anticipate what my normal next moves might be…

At power on it presents presets with the last one I used preselected. If I tap that preset or a different one it switches to show me the scenes for the selection. I can switch back to presets or into the effects for that preset and it reflects all the enabled states of those based on the scene’s block’s captured settings. Both the scenes and effects layouts have a “SOLO” switch that bumps up the volume 3db. That solo setting is remembered across all scenes so I can change sounds without dropping the volume, then when I’m ready I can toggle off SOLO. At any point I can set tap-tempo or access the tuner. And I still have two switches empty I can use in the scene layouts. And it’s all programmed in the FM9 so I can tweak it whether I have the computer at hand or not.

Because the FM9 is basically the same layout as the FM3+FC6, I can set up that combination to use the same flow only on the smaller system, so any per-preset overrides will still work.

The FC12 has even more available switches so we can do more, but I keep it at home so I don’t need it to act like I do the other two units which I set up for performance.

The OMG series of layouts were the guiding light for some interesting changes in how we use our layouts and are now integrated into the FM3 and FM9, making it easy to switch from the default factory settings if we want. Then we can do whatever we want with it.

 

[Mark-B]

Muahaahaahaahaa...never never ever think a mom can't outrun a bullet if she has an ass whippin on her mind...lol
Thanks for all that.

being 100% real..WE COULD PLAY A SHOW..I have my footswitch for the Champ 100...a dirty channel, a clean channel and some effects
I already replaced the two SLX D mics...I can sing through a wired Sennheiser 935 instead of my wirless headset.
And I can use a cord for my guitar for a change...lol
My computer and guitars are NEVER stored overnight in a trailer ever...so didn't lose those.
Drummer has 6 DW acoustic kit anyway....may have a TD 50 by the time the weddins crank back up.
For a wedding of 100 or less. ONE sub is sufficient and we still have four KW 153s.
They did get two of the Macki 450s we'd use as mains in a super small setting.

...Yeah, You can take as many precautions as there are precautions available to be taken - there's not much gonna stop organized thieves once they target you. Had a little experience with that kinda thing myself (from the "having been robbed" side of things-that is ;0)

Doth Suck.

Anyway, ...Glad that you have enough gear to keep you plodding along. Here's hoping for better days and that the Insurance pays out pretty-quick. Best of luck to you.

 

[Rex]

wait..what..
So, with the FC12, you can have all the buttons do different things in DIFFERENT presets?
Now I'm listening.

So, if the FC12 allows me to hyave each preset with the buttons all doing things specific to that preset...
Damn it all..the money...sheesh...lol

Yes. Once you’ve experienced a foot controller that’s custom-built for every preset, you’ll never want to go back. That’s why the FCs replaced the MFC-101; there’s no way the MFC can do these things.