Oh okay, NOW I understand PRS!

iaresee said:
Scale length is measured from the nut to the bridge. The ES-335, SG, and Les Paul are actually the exact same scale length: 24 3/4”.
Click to expand...

Yup. Wasn't contesting that. Just found it really interesting that guitars with a longer scale length can overall be shorter than
guitars with a shorter scale length.
 
Couple questions for folks talking about your 594s...

1. Do you all have Core models, or are there any S2s in the house?

2. Do any of you have Thinlines? Can anyone compare the tone of those with the other variants?
 
la noise said:
Great post and points. :)

Those design choices about how deep the neck joint is relative to the body make a HUGE difference
in feel (and looks, I reckon).

I have an SG, too, and it feels bigger than my PRS Standard 22. Biggest of all for me are the Jazzmaster
style offsets.

Was just looking at a guitar stand next to me and it really highlights the different lengths. 335 is longest,
then the SG, a Charvel, Les Paul, Godin Strat, PRS 245, and PRS Standard 22 is the shortest.


The shortest scale length guitars are longer than the longer scale length guitars.


View attachment 92310
Click to expand...
SG is all the way on the right and also leaned over farther than average?

iaresee said:
Scale length is measured from the nut to the bridge. The ES-335, SG, and Les Paul are actually the exact same scale length: 24 3/4”.

Your picture just shows that the distance from the bottom of the guitar to the bridge varies widely from body shape to shape.
Click to expand...
Yes.

That was kind of my point. It's why SGs feel huge to me while 594s feel small to whoever it was that said that they do.

It's also probably a significant part of why the 594 sounds different from a Les Paul: the pickups wind up "measuring" different parts of the string, and you pick in a different place, both of which affect at least the overtone series the guitar puts out.

No "magic" or unprovable assertions required.

I mean....I also believe in magic and at least some of the unprovable assertions that have come up. But, you don't need them to explain why guitars that look similar at first blush don't all sound the same.

Dave Merrill said:
Couple questions for folks talking about your 594s...

1. Do you all have Core models, or are there any S2s in the house?

2. Do any of you have Thinlines? Can anyone compare the tone of those with the other variants?
Click to expand...
Mine is an S2.

I did play a thinline before I bought it, but only for a couple minutes. I wasn't impressed. FWIW, I've never liked Juniors or Specials either (which is the big difference....thinlines don't have the maple cap).

ETA: unless I was misinformed, the big differences between S2 and Core are Korean vs American pickups and the complexity of the top carve. The top carve didn't bother me, and I was planning on replacing the electronics anyway. I really like RS Super Pots (and they hadn't had the fire yet), and I've never heard a humbucker that could coil split that sounded as good as one that can't. I have no idea why that would be the case, and I'll freely admit it might just be bias. But, I wasn't going to use the split anyway. So, my S2 594 got Seth Lovers, RS Super Pots, and PIO caps after I was sure I wasn't going to exchange it....which was about 3 days. Cores also get better-looking wood. Better sounding....as much as I believe that no 2 pieces of wood sound identical, I'm not sure that even Paul can predict exactly how a guitar is going to sound while it's still lumber...and mine sounds great.
 
Last edited:
marsonic said:
SG is all the way on the right and also leaned over farther than average?
Click to expand...

I should know better than post a pic and try to make simple point without it getting picked apart here. ;)

Don't make me get out my digital angle finder and compare relative angles of lean for each guitar on the guitar stand.

Kidding!

By eye they are all leaning about the same. Probably just the camera angle. I knew I should have gotten
the tripod out and measured equidistant to each guitar before clicking the photo. :)

Edit: SG = 39.5" 335 = 41"

Give or take. :)
 
Last edited:
The real question is what part does tone wood play?

iu
 
fcs101 said:
The real question is what part does tone wood play?
Click to expand...
IMO....

Quite a lot, but not the way people usually talk about it.

I don't actually care what a guitar is made out of. But, I've played enough "identical" guitars to never in a million years believe that they all sound the same, even if the same species of wood were used. They just don't.

There's a lot of "error" (e.g., manufacturing tolerances of the wood parts but also all of the electronics) involved in that judgement. But...I've also changed enough pickups to know that there's always a core that follows the guitar more than the pickups.
 
marsonic said:
SG is all the way on the right and also leaned over farther than average?


Yes.

That was kind of my point. It's why SGs feel huge to me while 594s feel small to whoever it was that said that they do.

It's also probably a significant part of why the 594 sounds different from a Les Paul: the pickups wind up "measuring" different parts of the string, and you pick in a different place, both of which affect at least the overtone series the guitar puts out.

No "magic" or unprovable assertions required.

I mean....I also believe in magic and at least some of the unprovable assertions that have come up. But, you don't need them to explain why guitars that look similar at first blush don't all sound the same.


Mine is an S2.

I did play a thinline before I bought it, but only for a couple minutes. I wasn't impressed. FWIW, I've never liked Juniors or Specials either (which is the big difference....thinlines don't have the maple cap).

ETA: unless I was misinformed, the big differences between S2 and Core are Korean vs American pickups and the complexity of the top carve. The top carve didn't bother me, and I was planning on replacing the electronics anyway. I really like RS Super Pots (and they hadn't had the fire yet), and I've never heard a humbucker that could coil split that sounded as good as one that can't. I have no idea why that would be the case, and I'll freely admit it might just be bias. But, I wasn't going to use the split anyway. So, my S2 594 got Seth Lovers, RS Super Pots, and PIO caps after I was sure I wasn't going to exchange it....which was about 3 days. Cores also get better-looking wood. Better sounding....as much as I believe that no 2 pieces of wood sound identical, I'm not sure that even Paul can predict exactly how a guitar is going to sound while it's still lumber...and mine sounds great.
Click to expand...
Thanks.

I think it was Fluff who had a video comparing the 3 S2s, SC, DC, and Thinline, and I didn't care for the Thinline either. Not to be Fred Flintstone, but it was thinner sounding, which in general is not me. The SC was the fullest, but I'd also prefer lighter weight, so the DC may be the Goldilocks choice.

Wish I could compare them myself. All three are available semi near me, but no two in the same place. One place with a Thinline has a Core DC but that's two variables, and I know I can't afford a Core, sadly.

I also have some things I'd like to trade in if I can, which leans heavily towards GC or another larger retailer.
 
iaresee said:
See: https://tension.stringjoy.com/

For a 25.5 scale length string tension is:

View attachment 92306

For 24.594 it's:

View attachment 92307



That's not nothing. Especially for weeny muscle fingers.
Click to expand...
Except @la noise was saying it's small not less tension.

I agree there's a difference in tension which is why people often use heavier gauge strings on shorter scale necks... Or pick shorter scale necks for weeny fingers ;)

Edit:

And good points raised by everyone about overall guitar size!
 
Last edited:
Dave Merrill said:
Thanks.

I think it was Fluff who had a video comparing the 3 S2s, SC, DC, and Thinline, and I didn't care for the Thinline either. Not to be Fred Flintstone, but it was thinner sounding, which in general is not me. The SC was the fullest, but I'd also prefer lighter weight, so the DC may be the Goldilocks choice.

Wish I could compare them myself. All three are available semi near me, but no two in the same place. One place with a Thinline has a Core DC but that's two variables, and I know I can't afford a Core, sadly.

I also have some things I'd like to trade in if I can, which leans heavily towards GC or another larger retailer.
Click to expand...
Yeah....idk. I have not played a single-cut. I already owned the LP...but apart from that, when I look at McCartys (McCarties?) I just see them as double-cut guitars for whatever reason. It might have been that the first time I saw one, it was Jeff McErlane's gorgeous almost-black one (no idea what PRS calls that color).

FWIW, I'm not totally convinced you need to compare them back and forth at the same place. My preference for the DC over the Thinline was very strong. I'm not convinced that I can even articulate why.....mine felt like my guitar, the thinline I played didn't. Definitely play them all, but....trust your instincts. If you can't decide, at least IMHO, that means that none of them are right...and it very well might be those individual ones.

fcs101 said:
PLEASE do not respond to the tonewood post! It was totally done in humor. The joke is that this has been and continues to be beat to death. Totally in jest! :p
Click to expand...
I couldn't figure out which side you were on and figured...I might as well.
 
marsonic said:
So, my S2 594 got Seth Lovers, RS Super Pots, and PIO caps after I was sure I wasn't going to exchange it....which was about 3 days. Cores also get better-looking wood. Better sounding....as much as I believe that no 2 pieces of wood sound identical, I'm not sure that even Paul can predict exactly how a guitar is going to sound while it's still lumber...and mine sounds great.
Click to expand...

Seth Lovers are SO good. I bet the guitar sounds pretty righteous!

Friend of mine has a D'Angelico with Seth Lovers in it and it is the first guitar I gravitate
towards when I go to his place.
 
la noise said:
Stellar guitar buying advice right there. Or guitar NOT buying advice. :)
Click to expand...
I have a pretty strong tendency not to buy guitars I look at, for better and worse.
I apparently have a notion of what I'm looking for stuck deep in some nether region, though I couldn't tell you what it is, at all.
Hopefully, I'll know it when I play it, but maybe I'm just wankin it, afraid to make a move.
But, I don't have to, and if nothing flips my beanie, guitars are too much money to just say yes to without feeling that thing.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Thanks.

I think it was Fluff who had a video comparing the 3 S2s, SC, DC, and Thinline, and I didn't care for the Thinline either. Not to be Fred Flintstone, but it was thinner sounding, which in general is not me. The SC was the fullest, but I'd also prefer lighter weight, so the DC may be the Goldilocks choice.

Wish I could compare them myself. All three are available semi near me, but no two in the same place. One place with a Thinline has a Core DC but that's two variables, and I know I can't afford a Core, sadly.

I also have some things I'd like to trade in if I can, which leans heavily towards GC or another larger retailer.
Click to expand...

No guarantee the doublecut will be any lighter than the singlecut. Get the body style you prefer. Many dealers list weights of their stock, and you can always ask if it's not listed.
 
Budda said:
No guarantee the doublecut will be any lighter than the singlecut. Get the body style you prefer. Many dealers list weights of their stock, and you can always ask if it's not listed.
Click to expand...
Weight is such an important factor for me these days. My 24-08 weighs 8 lbs, which seems to be my acceptable limit. My R9 and R7 are packed away for the time being because they are too heavy. The ZM is in the shop for a setup but I’m guessing it’s around 7.5 lbs. I’ve got an SE HB II due to arrive today that weighs 6.49 lbs. My back dictates a lot of what I can use.
 
DougB415 said:
Weight is such an important factor for me these days. My 24-08 weighs 8 lbs, which seems to be my acceptable limit. My R9 and R7 are packed away for the time being because they are too heavy. The ZM is in the shop for a setup but I’m guessing it’s around 7.5 lbs. I’ve got an SE HB II due to arrive today that weighs 6.49 lbs. My back dictates a lot of what I can use.
Click to expand...

I didnt care about weight til my 20's. The main reason my DC594 has stuck around is because I play sitting 99% of the time right now. I prefer to keep it under 9lbs, which is part of why I havent bought a '79 les paul custom that is otherwise a ripper. Still got some sellers remorse on the HBii i sold earlier too...
 
Budda said:
I didnt care about weight til my 20's. The main reason my DC594 has stuck around is because I play sitting 99% of the time right now. I prefer to keep it under 9lbs, which is part of why I havent bought a '79 les paul custom that is otherwise a ripper. Still got some sellers remorse on the HBii i sold earlier too...
Click to expand...
My old band gets together every now and then, and the bass player insists that I play his ‘77 LP Custom. It’s a killer guitar but it has to weigh close to 11 lbs. I can stand for maybe 15 minutes before my back starts spasming (is that a word?). He’s going to be upset when I show up with an HB, because no one else plays that Lester; it literally lives under the bed unless I play it.
 
DougB415 said:
and the bass player insists that I play his ‘77 LP Custom. It’s a killer guitar but it has to weigh close to 11 lbs. I can stand for maybe 15 minutes before my back starts spasming...
Click to expand...
Haha! Your story reminded me... My old Silverburst is a heavy beast, so much so that when I first started playing it, I had to like, get my shoulder/back muscles accustomed to playing it for probably a month before they wouldn't hurt! But dat sustain! Just listen to it. (Well it's not on right now...)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom