FM3 Mac Audio Monitoring Latency

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mcro2430

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I'm using Mac OS Mojave with the most up to date Garageband. Garageband is set to 24bit, with the FM3 set up as a 48k aggregate device.

When I'm monitoring a track, there is noticeable delay. Other settings make the delay worse, but the settings above are close to real time (but not quite, just enough to throw me off). I don't have this issue with any other USB audio device (which I wont list here, but I own several others).

Does anyone have any suggestions or settings I can try? The FM3 doesn't have the buffer size setting like the AxeFX does otherwise I'd play with that. Thanks!
 
mcro2430 said:
I'm using Mac OS Mojave with the most up to date Garageband. Garageband is set to 24bit, with the FM3 set up as a 48k aggregate device.

When I'm monitoring a track, there is noticeable delay. Other settings make the delay worse, but the settings above are close to real time (but not quite, just enough to throw me off). I don't have this issue with any other USB audio device (which I wont list here, but I own several others).

Does anyone have any suggestions or settings I can try? The FM3 doesn't have the buffer size setting like the AxeFX does otherwise I'd play with that. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Check to make sure you're not monitoring through a plugin that adds latency. But.....Apple has changed things a few times over the years in this regard, but I do not believe the current version of Garage Band offers any control over the audio buffer size, and hence the latency. I don't know how to interpret your comment about other USB devices, but I'm quite certain your problem is unrelated to the FM3. If the latency is throwing you off, your best bet would be to try a different DAW, one that offers control over the audio buffer size.

Even under the best of circumstances though, it's best to monitor direct, as Rex suggested.
 
Rex said:
When you monitor a recorded track in a DAW, there's always a delay. It's unavoidable. Monitor your input to that track instead of the track itself.
Click to expand...

Yup. Then when done just move the entire track back however many ms to eliminate the latency.
 
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I'm told that GarageBand can only do 44.1k not 48k and the difference between sample rates can cause problems so that may be contributing to the latency.
 
Tried using reaper with everything set to 48k. Better, but still enough monitoring latency to be unplayable for me.

Bought a $100 USB powered interface and running the FM3 output 2 through that while still monitoring through software. no more perceivable latency. Oh well.
 
mcro2430 said:
Tried using reaper with everything set to 48k. Better, but still enough monitoring latency to be unplayable for me.

Bought a $100 USB powered interface and running the FM3 output 2 through that while still monitoring through software. no more perceivable latency. Oh well.
Click to expand...
Reread post #3. That could have saved you $100. :)
 
Rex said:
Reread post #3. That could have saved you $100. :)
Click to expand...

I ordered the interface before I posted here. Just an interesting bit of personal experience for the sake of comparison.
  1. FM3 - variable latency from 'just enough to bother you' to 'someone else is copying your riff at Guitar Center'
    1. restarting my DAW usually resets the drift back to 'just enough to bother you'
    2. Multiple DAWs have the issue, whether configuring FM3 as an aggregiate 48k device, or configuring the DAW to 48k/24 natively
  2. Audient Sono - no latency
  3. Apogee Jam - no latency
  4. Focusrite Solo - no latency
  5. Apogee Duet - no latency
  6. HX Stomp - 90% of the time no latency, periodically need to restart my DAW if it drifts. Usually after about an hour of recording
Given that sometimes FM3 Edit can't talk to the FM3 until it's restarted, thought Fractal might want to know. Maybe something else going on too. Or maybe I'm unique.
 
just putting this out there i dont know why the other interfaces would be better but have you tried adjusting the
USB buffer size
i have read reports of that causing latency issues
 
Randalljax said:
just putting this out there i dont know why the other interfaces would be better but have you tried adjusting the
USB buffer size
i have read reports of that causing latency issues
Click to expand...

The FM3 doesn't have the option to adjust the buffer like the Axe3 does. Or if it does, I couldn't find it. :)
 
mcro2430 said:
I ordered the interface before I posted here. Just an interesting bit of personal experience for the sake of comparison.
  1. FM3 - variable latency from 'just enough to bother you' to 'someone else is copying your riff at Guitar Center'
    1. restarting my DAW usually resets the drift back to 'just enough to bother you'
    2. Multiple DAWs have the issue, whether configuring FM3 as an aggregiate 48k device, or configuring the DAW to 48k/24 natively
  2. Audient Sono - no latency
  3. Apogee Jam - no latency
  4. Focusrite Solo - no latency
  5. Apogee Duet - no latency
  6. HX Stomp - 90% of the time no latency, periodically need to restart my DAW if it drifts. Usually after about an hour of recording
Click to expand...
You’re monitoring the output of the track you’re laying down, instead of the Input to that track. That’s where the latency is coming from. You have to wait for your DAW to record the track, and then read it back, before you can hear it. The latency is coming from your DAW, not from your FM3.

When you use your outboard interface, you’re bypassing the DAW and monitoring directly. So no latency.
 
Rex said:
You’re monitoring the output of the track you’re laying down, instead of the Input to that track. That’s where the latency is coming from. You have to wait for your DAW to record the track, and then read it back, before you can hear it. The latency is coming from your DAW, not from your FM3.

When you use your outboard interface, you’re bypassing the DAW and monitoring directly. So no latency.
Click to expand...

I agree. I'm just saying this is the only device in 10+ years of recording this way that's had this issue consistently, that's why I posted.
 
mcro2430 said:
I agree. I'm just saying this is the only device in 10+ years of recording this way that's had this issue consistently, that's why I posted.
Click to expand...
Understood.

Could be that this is the first time in 10+ years that you haven’t used your DAW’s input monitoring while recording. ;)
 
I have an FM3 and decided to try recording via USB yesterday. I noticed some significant latency as well (to the point where I felt I couldn't use it for tracking). It did not matter what buffer size I set Ableton to and I did not have any plugins in the project.

(Just to show I'm not a complete noob to the subject) I am a professional guitarist who has tracked guitars out of my studio for years. I typically record via my Duet and know about direct monitoring via Maestro. I have also monitored through DAWs hundreds of times through multiple plugins and have not dealt with latency that bothered me as much as this did.

I read up on the III being able to change internal buffer rates and discovered the FM3 does not have this. My assumption is that the internal FM3 processing is what's causing the latency?

This would be a major disappointment to me as I was very excited to be able to record while on the road without having to bring my Duet along. Maybe the only solution is monitoring via headphones directly out of the outputs of the FM3?
 
what's weird is that i've never had any drift issues with any of my Fractal products, so weird the issues aren't consistent.
 
Thanks for the link @ethomas1013! It's expected that tech products early on are going to have some issues to iron out. Just happy that they're working on improving it.

One interesting thing I found was that the input/output latency widely varies depending on the combination of devices you chose:

In: FM3 (2.67 ms) Out: Built-in (12.0 ms) TOTAL: 14.7 ms <what I was using>
In: FM3 (5.92 ms) Out: FM3 (4.69 ms) TOTAL: 10.6 ms
In: FM3 (2.67 ms) Out: Duet (3.69 ms) TOTAL: 6.35 ms
In: Built-in (2.67 ms) Out: Built-in (12.0 ms) TOTAL: 14.7 ms
In: Built-in (2.67 ms) Out: Duet (3.69 ms) TOTAL: 6.35 ms
In: Duet (4.46 ms) Out: Duet (3.69 ms) TOTAL: 8.15 ms
In: Duet (2.67 ms) Out: Built-in (12.0 ms) TOTAL: 14.7 ms

It looks like using the Mac's built in headphone out always adds significant latency. Maybe there's no way around that. 14.7 ms might not seem like much to some but it was enough to bother me, especially if it's before adding any other plugins on. When I play through my Fractal I usually monitor direct, but I'm not sure how to do that with the FM3.
 
jholt said:
Thanks for the link @ethomas1013! It's expected that tech products early on are going to have some issues to iron out. Just happy that they're working on improving it.

One interesting thing I found was that the input/output latency widely varies depending on the combination of devices you chose:

In: FM3 (2.67 ms) Out: Built-in (12.0 ms) TOTAL: 14.7 ms <what I was using>
In: FM3 (5.92 ms) Out: FM3 (4.69 ms) TOTAL: 10.6 ms
In: FM3 (2.67 ms) Out: Duet (3.69 ms) TOTAL: 6.35 ms
In: Built-in (2.67 ms) Out: Built-in (12.0 ms) TOTAL: 14.7 ms
In: Built-in (2.67 ms) Out: Duet (3.69 ms) TOTAL: 6.35 ms
In: Duet (4.46 ms) Out: Duet (3.69 ms) TOTAL: 8.15 ms
In: Duet (2.67 ms) Out: Built-in (12.0 ms) TOTAL: 14.7 ms

It looks like using the Mac's built in headphone out always adds significant latency. Maybe there's no way around that. 14.7 ms might not seem like much to some but it was enough to bother me, especially if it's before adding any other plugins on. When I play through my Fractal I usually monitor direct, but I'm not sure how to do that with the FM3.
Click to expand...
Weird how the FM3's IN latency goes up when you use the FM3's OUT with it, 2.67ms -> 5.92ms.
In any case, I wouldn't trust reported latency. I'd measure it with something like RTL Utility to see what the actual latency is.

For monitoring direct, can't you do that with the FM3 just as with Axe-Fx II or III? Plug speakers/headphones into the output, turn off DAW track monitoring?
 
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