Friedman BE-OD Pedal In FX Loop

Brian Greco

Brian Greco

Inspired
Hey Everyone,

Yesterday I purchased (financed) the Friedman BE-OD pedal. I think it’s interesting that Friedman markets this pedal as an overdrive pedal rather than a distortion pedal. However, after doing a bit of research, I see that it’s very equipped for both tasks.

It has various controls including a tightening knob, which is supposed to tighten up the bottom end. I’m hoping that it does that quite well because that’s what I’m looking for. Interestingly, if you open up the back plate of the pedal there is a drive pot. This allows you to reduce or increase the amount of overall gain in the pedal. Being that there’s already a knob on the front panel that does this, I’m not sure what the purpose is, but I think it would be pretty cool if it did change the tone a bit just to provide even more versatility. IMO that can never hurt.

I always use the stock overdrive pedals in the AXE FX and continue to come out with some tremendous tones. However, in using the stock overdrive pedals, I find that they just don’t tighten up the bottom in the way a physical overdrive pedal does.

Let me just give you a brief explanation of how I like to make an amp and what I’m looking to do. When I making a heavy metal amp, I put just enough drive to get a clean and tight (as tight as I can) high gain tone, right before saturation. The next thing I do is place a stock overdrive pedal or any overdrive pedal for that matter before the amp in regard to the stock overdrive petals, I obviously incorporate something that adds to the flavor, not something that clashes with it. I put the tone knob somewhere at noon, the level as high as I can get it without masking the original tone- usually playing with the mix knob at this point as well , and finally adding just a touch of drive which just takes the metal tone to a whole new level.

I actually have a mint condition “Tube Screamer Overdrive Pro TS-808 re-issue. I’m a big fan of that pedal, but for some reason it just doesn’t sit right in the FX loop for me no matter how I tweak it . BYW I’m selling the pedal, complete with the box and the adapter that allows you to use it with the standard 9 V adapter. I’m not sure if what I just said is against forum rules, but it’s not a solicitation, something I’m just mentioning with in this post.

Anyway, my question to everyone is if anyone has used the Friendman BE-OD external pedal in the Axe FX FX Loop to tighten boost their tone.
If so, what kind of results did you get?

Another thing I was considering was trying one of the Protones pedals. I’m not a Djent metal guy, but those seem to be all about tightening up the tone. Has anyone ever put one of those in the FX Loop?

Thanks a lot everyone.
 
You could use the BE amp model in front of another amp model and you’d essentially be using the BE amp model as a Preamp pedal, might get you the same tones

I’ve never had good luck with drive pedals in the loop. The loop is line level and a lot of pedals are designed to work with an instrument level input. Some things like modulation can work fine, but not all drives.

I’d stick the pedal in front of the input if I was going to use it. That works really well with most any pedal, and is just like putting the pedal in front of an amp
 
lqdsnddist said:
You could use the BE amp model in front of another amp model and you’d essentially be using the BE amp model as a Preamp pedal, might get you the same tones

I’ve never had good luck with drive pedals in the loop. The loop is line level and a lot of pedals are designed to work with an instrument level input. Some things like modulation can work fine, but not all drives.

I’d stick the pedal in front of the input if I was going to use it. That works really well with most any pedal, and is just like putting the pedal in front of an amp
Click to expand...
Hey lqdsnddist,

Hmm... interesting point. You’re right, I could do the stock BE-OD in front of another amp, but it does sound different from the actual pedal. Also, if I can do what I want as far as tightening everything up, it’s worth it to me. The good thing about dealing with Sweetwater is that if I try it out for a day, I can just return it the very next day.

I’m actually going to take your suggestion in a couple of minutes. I saw one of Yek’s posts about doing the same thing, and so I imitated it, but didn’t get fantastic results. It’s something for me to continue to tinker around with though. I’m always open to suggestions because it’s just going to make the whole Axe FX thing more versatile for me.

Thank you so much for your insight.
 
Maybe just hit the low cut button or turn down the bass on the BE model, probably would work just as well to “tighten” up things
 
lqdsnddist said:
Maybe just hit the low cut button or turn down the bass on the BE model, probably would work just as well to “tighten” up things
Click to expand...
I’ve tried both techniques and it’s almost there, but not really. Those are my two go to knobs. The only thing I haven’t done is the two amp method using what you suggested. I’m gonna give it a shot.
 
I'd be surprised if an analog pedal could do anything with regards to "tightening" the bass that you couldn't get to with the AFX. It's not totally clear what "tighten" means, but if it has something to do with excessive low harmonics in the bass, you could try cutting the bass on the BMT and then adding it back in with the amp block GEQ, located somewhere after the preamp. This is a common technique for some of the Mesa amps.

One of the reviews for the pedal talked about bass resonance. You could certainly try messing with that on the speaker page of the amp block, and that might have a big impact on the "tightness".
 
StickMan said:
I'd be surprised if an analog pedal could do anything with regards to "tightening" the bass that you couldn't get to with the AFX. It's not totally clear what "tighten" means, but if it has something to do with excessive low harmonics in the bass, you could try cutting the bass on the BMT and then adding it back in with the amp block GEQ, located somewhere after the preamp. This is a common technique for some of the Mesa amps.

One of the reviews for the pedal talked about bass resonance. You could certainly try messing with that on the speaker page of the amp block, and that might have a big impact on the "tightness".
Click to expand...
Hey Stickman,

I’m not exactly sure how true that theory is regarding an analog
 
Brian Greco said:
Hey Stickman,

I’m not exactly sure how true that theory is regarding an analog
Click to expand...

I really meant in the context of a distortion pedal, there are some esoteric things you can do with, for intance, light bulbs (think Univibe), and of course the Fuzz Face isn't going to emulate the interaction with the guitar's volume pot.

I did have a quick look at a schematic for the BE-OD and there's nothing magic going on with the tightness control. It's just a bass cut at the first gain stage, before any clipping. Then you add it back in again at the output stage (yes, it's an active tone control so the bass is actually added back in), which is pretty much what I described in my post.

So, if you want to use a BE amp block as a distortion pedal, turn the SAG to zero to eliminate the power amp modelling, use the Bass knob on the main page as the "tightness" control and then use the GEQ to adjust the bass after the distortion.

The BE-OD circuit is cool though. It has three back-to-back clipping circuits, the first two are basically Tube Screamer clipping circuits and the last is pretty much a RAT. The "Presence" control seems to map pretty much to being the same as the tone control on the RAT circuit in design. The first TS clipping stage uses LED's as clipping diodes, which will result in a different sound and less clipping than the second TS clipping stage. The RAT is a pretty harsh clipping sound, while the TS is a lot smoother, so it's a good idea to put them both together in a single distortion unit. That being said, Doug Hammond designed a popular DIY circuit called the "Shaka Braddah" back in the 90's that a TS clipping stage feeding into a RAT clipping stage feeding into a clean boost (the Jack Orman "Mini Booster" circuit), so it's not really a new idea.


You might be able to simulate the BE-OD with two drive blocks and a PEQ. Use a TS and then a RAT. Turn the bass way down on the TS drive and the push it back up with the PEQ.
 
I literally just wrote you this very long and detailed response that I wasn’t quite finished with yet but it’s disappeared, so I wrote you another one. LOL

So, I’m just going to sum this up by saying that you may be right about an analog pedal not being able to deliver that “tight” bottom end. However, I can’t help but think of how many people in the metal genre use the TS-808 to do just that. I have actually been playing with my TS-808, and it does help with the bottom end, but the mids and the high end are kind of redundant of some of the stock overdrive pedals in the Axe FX, and I don’t mean specifically the TS-808 or the modded version. Lol However, I do realize that I’m not working with a tube amp here. I had a story in there for you about how I put an older Rocktron Metal Planet pedal (with a 4 band EQ and mid sweep) in the FX Loop. After making adjustments to the EQ and then fine tuning those adjustments for about 45 minutes, I noticed that it definitely did a fairly decent job of tightening the bottom. A secondary goal for me, is to try and add a little bit of a different flavor to the amps I make in A secondary goal for me, is to try and add a little bit of a different “flavor” to the amps I make in the Axe FX.

Also, I agree with your summary of “tightening up.” I myself don’t have the technical terms to articulate it, but my ears know exactly what’s going on. I work with the Axe FX every day for at least 2 hours now, because I believe and it’s ability for tone shaping.


In my search for pedals to use with the Axe FX for the purpose I mentioned above, I think I found a few pedals that can be extremely helpful. One is the “Precision Drive” by Horizon Devices. The others are the “Attack Overdrive,” “Mish Mansoor ‘Bulb’ Overdrive,” and the “Dead Horse Overdrive Pedal.” The last three pedals are by Protone. These are marketed as Djent Metal pedals, but I believe they might be able to give that type of tightness and very nice articulation for my Axe FX metal amps as well. I guess there’s only one way to find out.


I am going to try out the Friedman BE-OD pedal because it does have a tighten knob as well as a gain trim pot behind the plate, inside the pedal. I noticed that when people use it as a standalone pedal, it has some fizz, but it’s coming today so we’ll see what happens when I throw it in the FX Loop. If it’s not what I’m looking for, I can easily send it back.


I’m going to try the methods you suggested this afternoon. I thank you very much for chiming in and trying to help me achieve what I’m looking for.


If you have any more suggestions, just keep posting on this thread because I’m willing to try them all.


Thanks again,

Brian
 
Remember that a lot of guys use pedals with hardware amps because the amps have a limited number of controls. In the Axe models there are so many parameters that can be tweaked to idealize the respective tone, response, et al., you likely can achieve everything a pedal does, and then some.

Essentially a pedal may be the only option with a hardware amp, but there are likely dozens of ways to achieve the same result in the Axe, with no one way being “better” than another.
 
Brian Greco said:
So, I’m just going to sum this up by saying that you may be right about an analog pedal not being able to deliver that “tight” bottom end.
Click to expand...

That's not what I was saying at all. What I was saying was that I didn't think there would be anything in the pedal that you couldn't do with your AFX, with regards to tightening the bottom end.

This "tightening" thing seems to refer to getting muddiness in the bass spectrum because of distortion. As I understand it, this is because the harmonics generated through the distortion process end up crowding the lower middle frequency range and the result sounds muddy or "flubby". The general approach to this in most cases is to filter out much of the bass prior to applying the distortion, and the re-balancing the bass level at the output. This is absolutely the approach taken in the BE-OD pedal, and this is 100% reproducible in the AFX using a number of different block types.

If the pedal works for you, that's great. But there are so many opportunities to EQ a signal in the AFX that feeling like you have to go to an external pedal to get the EQ right seems a bit off to me.
 
Brian Greco said:
Hmm... interesting point. You’re right, I could do the stock BE-OD in front of another amp, but it does sound different from the actual pedal. Also, if I can do what I want as far as tightening everything up, it’s worth it to me. The good thing about dealing with Sweetwater is that if I try it out for a day, I can just return it the very next day.
Click to expand...
Remember that if you use an Amp block as a drive, you want to turn off the power amp sim... I believe that is accomplished by setting Preamp Sag to 0.
 
Have you tried using the Boost option on the Amp block? You can now select from various boost types.

I'd also suggest just using the TS-808 model (which, by the way is a model of the TS-9, not a TS-808!) and then adjusting the amount of Low in the EQ section (since the Low Cut is already very high).

Also, try using the Low Cut in the Amp block and then add any "missing" bottom end with the Output EQ in the Amp block (post power amp).

Also, try using the Input EQ in the Amp block.

All the technique you are trying to use is doing is 2 things: a) slamming the front end of the amp (Drive block level) and b) applying pre-EQ based on the "tone" of the drive pedal.

There are many different approaches to do the same thing on the Axe Fx III.

I really don't think you need an external drive to accomplish it.
 
StickMan said:
I really meant in the context of a distortion pedal, there are some esoteric things you can do with, for intance, light bulbs (think Univibe), and of course the Fuzz Face isn't going to emulate the interaction with the guitar's volume pot.

I did have a quick look at a schematic for the BE-OD and there's nothing magic going on with the tightness control. It's just a bass cut at the first gain stage, before any clipping. Then you add it back in again at the output stage (yes, it's an active tone control so the bass is actually added back in), which is pretty much what I described in my post.

So, if you want to use a BE amp block as a distortion pedal, turn the SAG to zero to eliminate
lqdsnddist said:
Remember that a lot of guys use pedals with hardware amps because the amps have a limited number of controls. In the Axe models there are so many parameters that can be tweaked to idealize the respective tone, response, et al., you likely can achieve everything a pedal does, and then some.

Essentially a pedal may be the only option with a hardware amp, but there are likely dozens of ways to achieve the same result in the Axe, with no one way being “better” than another.
Click to expand...

the power amp modelling, use the Bass knob on the main page as the "tightness" control and then use the GEQ to adjust the bass after the distortion.

The BE-OD circuit is cool though. It has three back-to-back clipping circuits, the first two are basically Tube Screamer clipping circuits and the last is pretty much a RAT. The "Presence" control seems to map pretty much to being the same as the tone control on the RAT circuit in design. The first TS clipping stage uses LED's as clipping diodes, which will result in a different sound and less clipping than the second TS clipping stage. The RAT is a pretty harsh clipping sound, while the TS is a lot smoother, so it's a good idea to put them both together in a single distortion unit. That being said, Doug Hammond designed a popular DIY circuit called the "Shaka Braddah" back in the 90's that a TS clipping stage feeding into a RAT clipping stage feeding into a clean boost (the Jack Orman "Mini Booster" circuit), so it's not really a new idea.


You might be able to simulate the BE-OD with two drive blocks and a PEQ. Use a TS and then a RAT. Turn the bass way down on the TS drive and the push it back up with the PEQ.
Click to expand...
Thanks very much for taking a look at the schematics. It’s always nice to learn from someone who been understands the true nature of these things.

One of your first suggestions to me was to use the BMT to make some bass cuts and what I need back in through the GEQ. I mentioned that I would try that, but now that I come to think about it I’ve done that several times. It really all depends upon the situation or how I am constructing an amp within the Axe FX. I am actually going to revisit that again today. I want to try out as many tips as I possibly can, because it’s just going to make me better at achieving whatever time I want within the Axe FX.

You know what’s funny is that often times I don’t use the stock BE-OD overdrive simulation. I have it in a couple of my amps, but it’s not a “go to.” I could give it a shot though just to see what happens there are several reasons why I picked out the physical Friedman pedal. One, was because the tone was different.


I did have a quick look at a schematic for the BE-OD and there's nothing magic going on with the tightness control. It's just a bass cut at the first gain stage, before any clipping. Then you add it back in again at the output stage (yes, it's an active tone control so the bass is actually added back in), which is pretty much what I described in my post.

So, if you want to use a BE amp block as a distortion pedal, turn the SAG to zero to eliminate the power amp modelling, use the Bass knob on the main page as the "tightness" control and then use the GEQ to adjust the bass after the distortion.

The BE-OD circuit is cool though. It has three back-to-back clipping circuits, the first two are basically Tube Screamer clipping circuits and the last is pretty much a RAT. The "Presence" control seems to map pretty much to being the same as the tone control on the RAT circuit in design. The first TS clipping stage uses LED's as clipping diodes, which will result in a different sound and less clipping than the second TS clipping stage. The RAT is a pretty harsh clipping sound, while the TS is a lot smoother, so it's a good idea to put them both together in a single distortion unit. That being said, Doug Hammond designed a popular DIY circuit called the "Shaka Braddah" back in the 90's that a TS clipping stage feeding into a RAT clipping stage feeding into a clean boost (the Jack Orman "Mini Booster" circuit), so it's not really a new idea.


You might be able to simulate the BE-OD with two drive blocks and a PEQ. Use a TS and then a RAT. Turn the bass way down on the TS drive and the push it back up with the PEQ.[/QUOTE]

turning the BEOD into a distortion pedal wi
lqdsnddist said:
Remember that a lot of guys use pedals with hardware amps because the amps have a limited number of controls. In the Axe models there are so many parameters that can be tweaked to idealize the respective tone, response, et al., you likely can achieve everything a pedal does, and then some.

Essentially a pedal may be the only option with a hardware amp, but there are likely dozens of ways to achieve the same result in the Axe, with no one way being “better” than another.
Click to expand...
lqdsnddist said:
Remember that a lot of guys use pedals with hardware amps because the amps have a limited number of controls. In the Axe models there are so many parameters that can be tweaked to idealize the respective tone, response, et al., you likely can achieve everything a pedal does, and then some.

Essentially a pedal may be the only option with a hardware amp, but there are likely dozens of ways to achieve the same result in the Axe, with no one way being “better” than another.
Click to expand...
lqdsnddist said:
Remember that a lot of guys use pedals with hardware amps because the amps have a limited number of controls. In the Axe models there are so many parameters that can be tweaked to idealize the respective tone, response, et al., you likely can achieve everything a pedal does, and then some.

Essentially a pedal may be the only option with a hardware amp, but there are likely dozens of ways to achieve the same result in the Axe, with no one way being “better” than another.
Click to expand...
 
Brian Greco said:
You know what’s funny is that often times I don’t use the stock BE-OD overdrive simulation. I have it in a couple of my amps, but it’s not a “go to.” I could give it a shot though just to see what happens there are several reasons why I picked out the physical Friedman pedal. One, was because the tone was different.
Click to expand...
What are you referring to here? There is no BE-OD model in the Drive block as far as I am aware.
 
lqdsnddist,

lqdsnddist said:
You could use the BE amp model in front of another amp model and you’d essentially be using the BE amp model as a Preamp pedal, might get you the same tones

I’ve never had good luck with drive pedals in the loop. The loop is line level and a lot of pedals are designed to work with an instrument level input. Some things like modulation can work fine, but not all drives.

I’d stick the pedal in front of the input if I was going to use it. That works really well with most any pedal, and is just like putting the pedal in front of an amp
Click to expand...
lqdsnddist said:
Remember that a lot of guys use pedals with hardware amps because the amps have a limited number of controls. In the Axe models there are so many parameters that can be tweaked to idealize the respective tone, response, et al., you likely can achieve everything a pedal does, and then some.

Essentially a pedal may be the only option with a hardware amp, but there are likely dozens of ways to achieve the same result in the Axe, with no one way being “better” than another.
Click to expand...

You’re absolutely right about using A peddle with a real amp. I am in agreement with you as far as the plethora parameters that the AXE FX has to really dial in a desired tone. That’s definitely advantageous over a pedal in many respects, but I like to experiment as well. Not only did I want to tighten up the bottom end, but I also wanted to see if I could achieve a different “flavor” tone via FX Loop. We’ll see what happens. If the pedal doesn’t work out, I’ll just ship it right back.

Thanks lqdsnddist!
 
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