Amp in the room simulation

ethomas1013 said:
But a closed back FRFR monitor with a coaxial speaker, or a tweeter, sitting side-by-side with an amp will never sound identical the amp, regardless of how good the IR that is used. Particularly if the amp has an open back cabinet.
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With far-field IRs, it can sound pretty bang on compared to a guitar cab.
For open cabs, you're right, no. But if you really wanted to, you could fire two FRFRs front & back and get a very similar effect.
 
If you don't wanna have an actual power amp and speaker, what I would suggest is messing with the Cab block. You can blend four cabs. Maybe do a 57, a 121, and then the other two, get some Room IR's and play with the panning. Also maybe a couple room reverb blocks. Maybe the Recording Room. That's what I would do if I wanted more of an "amp in the room" sound with, let's say, headphones.
 
yeky83 said:
With far-field IRs, it can sound pretty bang on compared to a guitar cab.
For open cabs, you're right, no. But if you really wanted to, you could fire two FRFRs front & back and get a very similar effect.
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Maybe some day we'll see someone make a guitar centric FRFR solution that includes a small speaker in the rear that has a separate input/power amp. The AxeFXIII certainly has enough output capability to send the signal from one cab block to one input, and a second cab block with a back IR to another input. That would be interesting.

camilovelandiamusic said:
If you don't wanna have an actual power amp and speaker, what I would suggest is messing with the Cab block. You can blend four cabs. Maybe do a 57, a 121, and then the other two, get some Room IR's and play with the panning. Also maybe a couple room reverb blocks. Maybe the Recording Room. That's what I would do if I wanted more of an "amp in the room" sound with, let's say, headphones.
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Having the ability to blend and pan multiple IR's directly in the AxeIII is fantastic. I have experimented with this using CabLab, but having this functionality on-board is really great!

And simply turning up the room/early reflections parameter in the reverb goes a long way towards simulating that in the room sound.

The bottom line for me is that I approach each as their own thing. I have personally abandoned the idea of trying to make my AxeIII sound like an open-backed cab/amp in the room. I embrace each for what they are, and use each for different purposes.
 
camilovelandiamusic said:
If you don't wanna have an actual power amp and speaker, what I would suggest is messing with the Cab block. You can blend four cabs. Maybe do a 57, a 121, and then the other two, get some Room IR's and play with the panning. Also maybe a couple room reverb blocks. Maybe the Recording Room. That's what I would do if I wanted more of an "amp in the room" sound with, let's say, headphones.
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With 4 ir's available and a little creativity I think we will definitely get closer to the "in the room sound". I believe there is a reason FAS included several positions of the same cab ir capture (look at the cab list).

Loving the vids Camilo :) much thanks for those!
 
I'm also thinking if we had a delay param to let the room capture blend in a few milliseconds later could be really useful. Does mic distance do this? or does it affect the tone and not the time?
 
NeoSound said:
I'm also thinking if we had a delay param to let the room capture blend in a few milliseconds later could be really useful. Does mic distance do this? or does it affect the tone and not the time?
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This isn't possible unless the IR was shot under conditions (room size) necessary for far field captures, in which case it would make more sense to use a separate reverb or reverb IR. This is because with a typical cab IR it is impossible to separate early reflections from the direct signal, because the cabinet is still decaying while the reflections begin.
 
antcarrier said:
This isn't possible unless the IR was shot under conditions (room size) necessary for far field captures, in which case it would make more sense to use a separate reverb or reverb IR. This is because with a typical cab IR it is impossible to separate early reflections from the direct signal, because the cabinet is still decaying while the reflections begin.
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I agree. But I would still like to have some far field irs to experiment with and hopefully irs that have zero room reflections in them of the same cab. Bass frequencies move slower than high frequencies although this is not supposed to be perceptible. With an amp it takes more energy to create bass frequencies than highs also, which seems it should exaggerate the misalignment of high vs low even more?

When I get a III I'll have to experiment.
 
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"Amp in the room" is being able to put space between your rig and your face. With an IR, what's coming out of your monitors is the mic sound right up on the speaker grill, no space. Have you ever put your ear right up to the speaker cone? It's painful. Put space between your face and your rig, so the sound can bloom before it gets to you.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-and-make-great-ones-sound-ridiculous.123064/

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...one-issue-youve-ever-had.131015/#post-1551798
 
That Line6 PowerCab looks interesting, but based on the listed features I fail to see how it will deliver the illusive "amp in the room" experience any better than cabinet based FRFR solutions that have been on the market for a few years from Matrix, XiTone, etc... I guess we'll have to hear those 6 different built in speaker simulations to hear exactly what they might be doing with the DSP programming to simulate an amp in the room. Call me skeptical at this point...

Most of the added features, built in speaker sims, IR loading, etc... are redundant for Fractal owners who would most likely want to use it in "Flat" mode. In any case, at $799 this looks like it's worth checking out. I will be curious to read reviews as people start to use these.

I agree with @yeky83 on the form factor and the digital I/O. That's a really nice feature.
 
Thanks for the video. Looks interesting. I like the idea that the built in speaker modeling is not aimed at cabinet modeling, but at how those speakers would sound in that cab. Neat approach.

Depending on how accurate that speaker simulation sounds, I could see a huge market for an unpowered version that could be used with an amp.
 
ethomas1013 said:
Thanks for the video. Looks interesting. I like the idea that the built in speaker modeling is not aimed at cabinet modeling, but at how those speakers would sound in that cab. Neat approach.

Depending on how accurate that speaker simulation sounds, I could see a huge market for an unpowered version that could be used with an amp.
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There won't be an unpowered version. The "speaker modeling" seems to be based on IRs, or at least something before the internal power amp.
 
I think a lot of this discussion could be cleared up if instead of “amp in the room“ tone we simply said “face in front of the speaker cabinet” tone. Although that doesn’t roll off the tongue quite as easily.

Even if you could suspend yourself in the air along with all your gear in one of those anechoic chambers so you got zero room reflections or EQ influence there, you would still hear a difference between putting your face in front of an actual guitar cabinet vs putting your face in front of the pair of studio monitors listening to that cabinet being mic’d. There’s just something about microphones that inherently changes the character of the way the guitar sounds and I personally think the “room” element has a lot less to do with it than most people think.
 
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ethomas1013 said:
Thanks for the video. Looks interesting. I like the idea that the built in speaker modeling is not aimed at cabinet modeling, but at how those speakers would sound in that cab. Neat approach.

Depending on how accurate that speaker simulation sounds, I could see a huge market for an unpowered version that could be used with an amp.
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The "Plus" version allows you to load your own IR's. Interesting concept, utilizing IR's in a powered cab. Don't know how much of a difference it actually makes, most likely none as the IR is still after the amp model and before the actual power amp/speaker
 
brianv4 said:
The "Plus" version allows you to load your own IR's. Interesting concept, utilizing IR's in a powered cab. Don't know how much of a difference it actually makes, most likely none as the IR is still after the amp model and before the actual power amp/speaker
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Loading your own IRS into the Powercab 112 is likely to deliver different results compared to loading them into a Cab block. No matter what IR you choose, it’ll still be colored by the physical cab itself which, for the Powercab, never changes.
 
I'd have assume (without reading the specs) the speaker in the Powercab is FRFR (it is coaxial) or the IR's in it wouldn't work properly. Obviously you wouldn't have all the features of the AxeFx cab block
 
brianv4 said:
I'd have assume (without reading the specs) the speaker in the Powercab is FRFR (it is coaxial) or the IR's in it wouldn't work properly. Obviously you wouldn't have all the features of the AxeFx cab block
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The manufacturer says that the different models are models of the actual driver (presumably free-field), as opposed to typical IR captures of speaker/cab combinations.
 
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