Click tracks...anyone here use them?

warlockII

Fractal Fanatic
With out new drummer our tempo on songs isn't always where I think it should be. Discussions don't seem to be changing the situation, so I'm going to suggest we try using a click track in our IEM's. A side benefit would be that we could automate our light show. If you've tried or still are using click tracks, how do/did you like them. Are there any issues I can avoid?
Thanks as always!
 
1. Making sure the drummer (and everyone) *stays* on tempo during the song. Sometimes, once the music gets going, it becomes hard to hear the click... and then you get to a quiet part and realize you've drifted.

2. Using a click locks you in to that tempo, so if you do have music that wants to be able to breathe, then you're stuck. One option is to use a click at the beginning of the songs to get the tempo right, but then turn it off once you start the song.

Regardless, I'd say try it and see if it works for you.
 
You may or may not have live tempo issues but I will impart a phenomenon I discovered. Our brains play some serious tricks regarding tempo. I prerecorded drums, bass, keyboards and accents. Runs our lights and MIDI cues every device including Fractal, Reverbs, harmonies we have plugged in. 100% automation except for 1 live guitar, 2 live voices.

On any given night I swear we are playing fast, some nights slow, some nights fast and slow and it is 'known' that we are not. Keep that in mind. If you only have click and the balance in live players doesn't guarantee you will resolve any issues and they may actually get worse.
 
Good luck with that - I have not been able to successfully use a click track without ruining the feeling of the music. Having said that, the tempo is all over the place :-(
unfortunately I think if the drummer cannot adjust to a click track, you'll be in trouble. Your message seems to indicate that the tempo is incorrect but perhaps not varying? In that case you could program a count in perhaps?
Thanks
Pauly
 
I have loved using clicks in past bands - but only when the drummer actually uses/listens to it! Luckily we had a pro drummer and he actually controlled all the backing tracks and so forth. No issues at all. Generally wouldn't use them for slower numbers.
 
You need to practice playing with a click for the band to sound tight.

I recommend using a simple conga or percussion loop vs. a click track. Loops will have a little swing to them and are easier to play in time with than a hard click.

Good drummers can swing the groove while listening to a click and make it sound effortless.
 
And if your drummer objects you can tell him that if it was good enough for when Mike Portnoy played with Avenged Sevenfold...
 
Getting a new drummer is off the table...we were feeling like Spinal Tap for a while there. A few songs do speed up or vary, but there are a few that drag. I can get him to speed up, but as soon as we're back to the verse, he brings it back to the speed he "likes".
Another reason I like the idea of the click is to make sure that I'm not mistaken as to the tempo.
Thanks again for the responses guys!
 
We play a few tunes with backing tracks. On those tunes, we obviously use a click track. But my Drummer-in-law...;)... was not interested in wearing in-ears. So I built a little circuit that converted the audio signal from the click output to a 12 volt DC pulse to drive a light.

It worked so well that I built a new 4 channel version. We use 2 of the stereo outputs from our audio interface to drive the 4 lights. The 2 stereo click tracks are wav files that can be completely custom tailored for each tune and are launched along with the stereo backing tracks in 'Ableton Live' from my MFC-101. 1 set of lights for me and 1 for the drummer. It's like watching a bouncing ball....:D
 
Certain songs benefit from a click while others will tend to sound stiff.

My band uses a click on songs that have backing tracks and for the most part all is good.
Some songs are harder for the drummer to stay locked in.

If you're using the click just for tempo purposes, test it out and you'll see that for certain songs, even if the drums are locked in, you'll never be able to re-create the feel you had without the click.
 
I've played to click tracks in both studio and live settings. Playing to a click in a band setting is a little unnatural for most musicians, even those who regularly practice with a metronome. Here are my recommendations :
  • Use just four bars of click track for each song as the count-in, then play freely as a group. This gives you the benefit of having a tempo reference as a starting point, but minimizes the pitfalls of using a click track throughout the song. It means the tempo may drift, so you're dependent on the tempo stability of all the musicians in the band. If this approach works for you, it keeps the band's attention on on playing together, rather than on playing to an inflexible outside tempo source.
  • If you use a click track during the entire song, have it audible to the drummer only. Again, you want to have the band playing together as an organism, so when the drummer is getting a click, it means everyone in the band must follow the drummer. This allows you to have a rock-solid tempo, but keeps the band's focus on playing together as a unit, rather than everyone focusing on the click. This will take practice, but will give everyone more confidence in following the drummer.
  • Full band click is more challenging. I've been a part of ensembles that used backing tracks, so everyone has to be locked in. If the full band can play to a click track, then you do get consistency. When playing in a pit orchestra (for a musical), or with other multimedia that incorporates timecode, everyone must play to the click because the cues are all programmed down to a SMPTE frame. But, music that is performed to click or timecode can sound stiff. It takes a lot of confidence and experience to swing or express a groove under this setting. The musicians who are the best at playing to an external source of tempo are often those with experience in an orchestral setting, where a conductor is the source of time.
When I work in the studio as a musician, I'm often a guitarist-for-hire, so when I come in to record my parts there is usually a framework of the song already in place, with time code running throughout. During run-through, I play to existing tracks, and use the click track to lock in my part. When I record my takes, I almost always turn off the click, and just play to the bed tracks. My reasoning is this : if they wanted the guitar parts to be frame-locked and totally perfect in time, they would have programmed them. I'm there to contribute musically to the recording, so I'll follow the other musicians as if we were playing live together.

When I'm engineering in the studio, we start with full-band scratch / guide tracks, and those are recorded to a click. As we build the keeper tracks, the first several layers (drums, percussion) are almost always recorded to the click as a reference, but those musicians are also hearing the guide tracks to know where they are in the song. The bass / keys / guitar rhythm tracks may use the click, but I prefer to use the keeper drum track as the musical reference. Once we have the framework of a song in place, I prefer to mute the click for everything else, unless a musician requests it. I want the band to sound like a band, where the time can breathe. Like I stated above, if we wanted it to sound sequenced, we would have done it that way :)

Above all else, play to the music, not the click. The biggest pitfalls of a click track : it can't hear you. You've abdicated your right to influence the tempo. The click is an inflexible authority for the groove, and a band can divert a lot of musical energy to staying on the click, rather than playing together as musicians. Used sparingly, a click can greatly increase a band's confidence in getting songs started at the right tempo.
 
The bottom line is, if the musicians don't have good "time" skills, then trying to use a click live is probably going to be worse.

A musician with bad timing won't be able to follow a click. In this case use the click at home or at rehearsal to improve your timing but ditch it for the live shows.

Ironically, it takes really good timing to stay with a click, let alone swing the groove to a click. A musician that can do that, most likely can play in great time without a click track anyway.

I play in a band where the leader is a seasoned musician with good time. But he cannot for the life of him follow a count in. If you count off 2 bars, he will come in completely off. Can't do it lol. But if he starts the song himself, or the band established the groove, no problem.
 
I have a love/hate relationship with click tracks. For recording, I think the click really helps, and makes editing MUCH easier. For live, my experience is good, but I (modestly) say that because I have a good sense of timing and can stay in the pocket. I find that most drummers HATE them. They reveal poor timing (especially coming off the fills) and drive the drummers berzerk.
 
If you want to help your drummer improve, have him use a click at both his own practise area and the band rehearsal to get started.
You might find this is enough to get your live show in order.

Also get your bass player on board with the click too, he should be able to help keep the drummer in order to some degree.
 
Any one can learn to play to a click track if they're willing. It was an adjustment when we first started using ours but now it seems we'd be lost without it. Not that they'd admit it but I actually think it helps the drummers more than anything if they're at all concerned about keeping accurate time. It takes that pressure off of them and lets them play.
 
If things are feeling a bit stiff using a click, you can always tempo map sections for more accelerando or rubato feels if the piece demands it. It may be a bit more work but sometimes the net result is worth the effort.
 
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