AX8 Drives

I think the problem of some drives is that the controls on the axe fx behave differently than on the real pedal, it's the case of the big muff for example, where the tone control is a tilt eq which also introduces a notch in the mid frequencies, while the tone in the ax8 is the same for all the drive models and is a simple low pass filter. The gain in the model is also way higher than the pedal.
We would also need different slopes for the hi and lo cut filters inside the block to more precisely match the frequency response, and for some modela they're not set right by default (at least compared to my real pedals).
I say these things cuz I made a bit of measurements and comparisons with some pedals I own (they could be different than the ones modelled btw)
Josetxu said:
I have a similar feeling as yours. I've bought the AX8 to replace all my current rig but my boss DD500 (the most important part in my pedalboard) has died a few days before a gig so yesterday I tried to program the AX8 for using with my amp (only effects) and ended up buying a replacement for my delay because I couldn't get the drives sounding anywhere near my analog pedals and I don't want to take both my analog pedals and AX8 to the gig.

My style is very different from what I see from almost everyone here: I don't play metal, djent or anything like that. I play Knopfler, Gilmour, Robben Ford, etc... and my analog rig is a brownface vibroverb with some pedals I tried to replicate yesterday:

- Buffalo FX evolution: a take in the Cornish G2 muff style pedal. It's a great pedal: balanced, gritty but clear, tight bass, etc... I tried to replicate it with both the muff and the RAT. I tried everythig: change diodes, played with the cuts, the three band EQ... nothing :( the Muff model just sound awful. You can make it a little better with a bit of mids and lowering a bit the bass cut but I think such a legendary model deserves a VERY better model.

- King of Tone: tried with the bluesbreaker model (in which the king of tone is based). So bright and so grainy I couldn't believe it.

In general I find that most of the drives have a lot of gain. You have to turn the gain knob in the KoT very high to make it sound like the bluesbreaker at 2 or 3 (and I remember the Marshall bluesbreaker to have less gain than the KoT). My main guitar is a strat with CS '69 pickups and have the input pad set to 12dB (for my 335 and Les Paul with antiquities).

- Wampler Plexidrive and Keeley BD-2: I tried the bluesbreaker and the two Tube Drivers. The 4 knobs sounds a bit too dark: I've played several times with the real thing and it's a bright pedal and, again, with less gain than the model. The 3 knob sounds better. But I found several of the models lacking clarity and it doesn't matter what I do that when I kick a real pedal it sounds much, much better.

On the other hands the Xotic RC and the AC (I have an AC+ and used to have a RC) seems to be very similar to the real Xotics.

I hope we could test the new clipping algorithms soon and see if things get better but I think the AX8 deserves a much better drive models. I can see myself using the AX8 with the Buffalo and either KoT or BD2 in the loop :(
Click to expand...
Here is a preset and a couple of gilmourish blocks I created based on the aforementioned measurements, they're still not 100% right but pretty accurate to my ears. ;)

P.S.: in the preset the various scenes are for different parts of the song, lower the guitar volume knob for cleaner sounds. The cab bundled to the preset is just the stock TAF-Starfound cab with dephase applied in the axe fx

EDIT: I've realized now that I attached the wrong Big Muff block, I've deleted it and loaded the new one.. even if it will probably be useless after Cliff's last update
 

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I'm with the original poster. The drives are very much the weak point on the unit. I LOVE LOVE my AX8 though, and can find many different amp sounds I love, and then I've been using 'Filters' to increase drive,etc. If you're like me and have owned literally 100 od/distortion/fuzz pedals since the late 70's and also dozens of the best amps, learning how to mix/match amps/drives, and are expecting 'plug and play' with the drives on the AX8 you might be a little disappointed, BUT if you're like me and you soon realize the ax8 has 100 ways to skin a cat, or whatever the expression is, you might also think it's the best box in the world. I've learned quickly that I can't expect EVERY SINGLE THING about the AX8 to be 'THE BEST". . . . p.s. . my experience is way different than Barry John's... I can put an OCD, or Oddfellow Caveman or Klon-type pedal in front of the ax8 (same as I could with my old Axe-Fx Std, and it sounds PERFECT.. .Not sure why his would sound like crap. .hmm.. Oh well , hard to please all of us! Eric
 
I kind of skimmed through this thread and looked to see what people were saying. I found it interesting as to why people like or dislike the drives. Personally I rarely use them because there are some many EQ options and ways to boost the front end of an amp sim that you really don't need to.

OTOH it is nice to drop a TS808 in front of a Marshall plexi style sim and get that classic 80's hard rock tone :D.
 
I hate metal almost as much as I hate twangy country vocals. But I love my AX8. It really nails edge-of-breakup tones.

Now granted, I use 3 external drive pedals but mainly to save CPU for reverb, not because I can't get usable drive tones.

All that said, I would be thrilled to see the Drive block get some update love.
 
I had gone back and forth with the drives and have finally reached the point where I'm exclusively using the drives in my FX8. When I first got it, I was surprised that some of the drives were actually pretty good and used them for a couple of months but something was missing. I put one of my pedals back on by board and discovered some of the 'feel' I was missing. After awhile, I got determined to make the drives in the FX8 work and sat down with it and tried to tweak the drives to give the feel back. Success.

When I compared the drives to pedals I had/have I was a bit underwhelmed and somewhat disappointed. When I quit comparing and started looking at them as their own thing and tools, I've had much more success. For example, the BB Pre models sounds/feels different than the BB Preamp pedal I own but I've found other models in the FX8 to get what I used the BB Preamp for without any compromise.
I find the gain structure I need, adjust the Tone as desired, adjust the High Cut to get the bite I need, the Low Cut to get the feel/body I need then find the Mid Freq the drive needs boosted or cut. I've found the key to drives is to spend time tweaking.

There's so many parameters as well as tools like the EQ and Filter blocks available that it's possible to get whatever you need with the Fractal drives. It all comes down to how much time you're willing to spend to find them. Some may take more time than others but they are in there. One other thing to note, some of the settings you end up with may not make sense in the 'real world' but at the end of the day if it sounds good and does the job that's all that matters.
 
heavy-mallet.gif
 
Seems it's time to add a modeling version option in the drive block too..
Just kidding, just kidding :D
 
I too think the drives are spectacular. I can make any one of them work and create a cool tone. Trust me, I'm no fan boy...when I'm not down with something, I will definitely speak up in a professional way. But the drives are not something I've ever had a problem with.

I think (in my opinion being a user for a few years now as well as a beta tester) the thing that made me stop fighting with the Axe stuff was to stop comparing it to the stuff it supposedly models. You might think that's a dumb thing to do, but you know what? All these options are "tools" for me. If I want to use a real amp or real pedals, I'll just use them, ya know?

To me, the differences in hardware gear vs the stuff offered in any Fractal products are minimal or "only you will notice". Let's face it, you either have a good tone or you don't. Sure there are some differences...but guess what, I've had the original hardware sound like crap vs the Fractal stuff too. I don't like Marshall amps that much, but yet my go to amp is the 800 mod...go figure?! It just gives me what I need in a tone.

See, there's an example right there. I didn't pay attention to any particular amp when I chose that one. I played and listened to how the amp worked and sounded with various cabs. I did the same with the drive block. What complimented what I was doing more so than looking at a name and comparing it? I really think this is where we fail and put too much stress on ourselves.

Try not caring about the name of something and just tweaking it for 10-15 minutes. If you don't like it, move on to something else. If you can't find something cool in this library of madness, something is wrong somewhere. I admit that it can be challenging for some people to get the sound they are looking for.

I've read enough posts to know this is a fact and that there are times when the Axe is so overwhelming, we're stuck between not knowing what or where to tweak all the way down to...."do we really know what a good sound consists of" because we get so lost in the options. I think this can happen with any piece of gear when it offers so many different ways to create good tone.

Anyway, astray as usual.....I love the drive blocks and am actually a bit scared of the changes we may see with them. Once again I'm totally happy with my sounds on all my Axe units and think the drives rule for my particular uses....classic rock, blues, hard rock, metal etc.
 
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