Ok wish me luck last chance for my CLR today with the full band

I have 2 Matrix Q12a, which I think are simulare to CLR's and I use them in backline on Speakertands about 2 meter high. It sounds better for me and as they're small anyway the sound goes right above the band in to the audience.

I'm a gigging musician since end of 1960 and till about 3 years ago I've always played marshall amps, Soldano Bogner...with 2 4x12 marshall cabs. 3 years ago I bought the Axe FX II and played about 1 year my Axe with the peavy classic 50/50 tube poweramp and the 2 marshall cabs. Lvely sound fantastic, as I played mainly Rock / Hardrock. Now I'm already 66 years of age and have no roadies to carry my cabs, so I've decided to go FRFR. The first year it was hard to get used to it and I missed my cabs. I went back to real cabs and bought 2 2x12 cabs (marshall and orange) and it wasn't the same as the 4x12's. But still a warm in the room sound. But even these 2 where heavy to carry and in full Pub my speakers got lost in the sound.

I realised then how much more the FRFR cut through the mix and now cab sims and fw have improoved alot, so now I love the sound of my FRFR and compared to the real cabs, I've got much more sounds to choose from. I've gotten used to it and want never go back to the real cabs.

So what I want to say is, it takes quiet some time to get used to it, but once you used to it, wow.. so don't sell it or give it up - give it a year or so. I did sell all my Matrix amp and Q12's and bought then again two Q12a's and I'm glad I did...
 
kmanick said:
IbanezFreak4------------I am not trying to start an arguement, just a few too many posts on this forum that "suggest" that if you don't fall in line with the sheep
A. you're doing something wrong or
B. you a self centered wanker that only cares about his own playing experience. shit I am not Vinnie Vincent LOL!
Click to expand...

Understood completely and I have had similar experiences of "conformity over flexibility" in the forum before. That's the beauty of the Axe as you said, it is extremely capable and thus lends itself to opinionated musicians who are always right!! :D HAHA. Good luck my friend, please the crowds and enjoy doing it that's the bottom line!!
 
Kamanick you may want to give this a shot - Garland Amps Stereo tube power amp can be bridged to mono for 80 watts. Basically what Fryette is supposed to release in the LXII SOMEDAY. Still waiting here myself. This Garland amp is about 855 shipped to US though. From what I see on Fryette's site the LXII is going to be 1299.
 
Ha! This post has some heat!
IMHO I was a little upset when I finished my dream rig! What the hell am I gonna research and shop for now?!? I've tried 90% of the setups, scrutinized guitar/preset, preset/cab, FRFR/cab/guitar/leather pants, etc...

What a good problem to have! The Fractal Axe FX II has afforded us the whimsy of dissatisfaction so we can find that elusive combination of items that pleases our dubious opinions of how we should sound...
Borrow a XiTone ASAP. I promise you whoever lends it to you won't trade it for your CLR!

Good luck!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Kamanick, I don't think anyone is suggesting your a "wanker" et al., in any way. I specifically even tried to make that point very clear in my posting. This overall discussion is I feel, more broad and general now, with regards to FRFR, cabs etc, and doesn't specifically relate only back to you. You simply started what has turned into a useful and interesting conversation on live sound monitoring.

Lots of valid points being made on all sides, and lots of new idea's for people to try out.

I myself am rather interested in a XiTone cab, sounds quite intriguing.
 
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I have tried some of Micks earlier wedges, maybe it's time to try them again.
patches?....................I went through about 10 of them yesterday, funny thing was when it was just me playing or just me, the drummer and the bass player
it wasn't 1/2 bad, but when the other guitarist was playing it really jumped out at me at how thin the CLR sounded against a real 2X12 and again it was not a volume issue.
Believe me I wanted this to work , it was so easy to set up and break down yesterday, but it just wasn't working for me. I think I'm going to hold on the the wedge for a little
bit longer and try a few more things , maybe someone wants to send me a patch that I can try that has been "volume tested"
this is basically the sound I'm using for a lot of my set. (Particularly his lead tone, we do this tune ....lots of fun)
 
You keep saying how the clr sounded. The issue is the clr is not supposed to have a sound. It gives you what the axe fx spits out to foh. That's it. What "sounds" out of it is the IR you're using. That's what replaces the cab.
 
kmanick said:
I have tried some of Micks earlier wedges, maybe it's time to try them again.
patches?....................I went through about 10 of them yesterday, funny thing was when it was just me playing or just me, the drummer and the bass player
it wasn't 1/2 bad, but when the other guitarist was playing it really jumped out at me at how thin the CLR sounded against a real 2X12 and again it was not a volume issue.
Believe me I wanted this to work , it was so easy to set up and break down yesterday, but it just wasn't working for me. I think I'm going to hold on the the wedge for a little
bit longer and try a few more things , maybe someone wants to send me a patch that I can try that has been "volume tested"
this is basically the sound I'm using for a lot of my set. (Particularly his lead tone, we do this tune ....lots of fun)
Click to expand...


Are you sure the CLR sounds thin and its not in fact the 2x12 sounds overly boomy, giving a false representation of the low end ?

Sounds like the classic case of where people record their guitar and find the mic'd cab sounded totally different than how the cab sounded in the room. Also analogous to when people produce tracks using some "hi-fi" type of computer monitor speakers opposed to flat studio monitors. When you mix your stuff down on a system that is designed to have real hyped up bass, it sounds thin on a true flat system.

Sounds like you very well may have a thick and crushing tone on stage with your cab, which I understand sounds thinner via the CLR, but have you gone out and listened to the FOH sound ? Your guitar likely sounds thin to the audience as well.

This essentially is the beauty of a FRFR monitor, your hearing basically what the crowd hears via FOH, so if it sounds good to you, it sounds good to them, and vice versa.

Using a cab might sound great on stage, but you don't know what your FOH tone sounds like. You've then got to dial in 2 different tones, which is certainly doable, but extra work.

Again to each his own, but I for one just don't find it worth all the extra effort to dial in a tone that basically is just for my own listening needs.
 
acidfrost said:
You keep saying how the clr sounded. The issue is the clr is not supposed to have a sound. It gives you what the axe fx spits out to foh. That's it. What "sounds" out of it is the IR you're using. That's what replaces the cab.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. The sound the player hears from a cab is far different than what the mic "hears" from the cab because the player is in the far field and the mic is in the near field. Also the player is typically off-axis so he's getting less highs.

You can't compare what you hear standing 10 feet from a cab to what the mic hears several inches away.
 
FractalAudio said:
Yes and no. The sound the player hears from a cab is far different than what the mic "hears" from the cab because the player is in the far field and the mic is in the near field. Also the player is typically off-axis so he's getting less highs.

You can't compare what you hear standing 10 feet from a cab to what the mic hears several inches away.
Click to expand...


Exactly. My Deluxe Reverb for example sounded fantastic in my basement, with the amp sitting on a carpeted floor, and in an untreated room. I had this great room filing tone, with some natural reverb, and as the amp was at the my feet, a very sweet and smooth high end.

I remember then when I'd mic it, and hear the playback, it was like a shrill ice pick in the ears, and felt like it had no bottom, and sounded so dry. Basically was night and day from how I was used to hearing it at home.

Thing was though, unless I invited everyone over to my place to stand around and hear me play, that tone wasn't really reproducible. Every place that wanted to stick a mic in front of my amp wasn't going to get my home basement tone. As such, I had to figure out some different amp settings to make it sound a bit better via a FOH system.

Just the way it works, and something likely every guitarist has faced the first time they tried to record their guitar, except for the younger generation who may have only ever heard guitars through modelers, never knowing a real amp.
 
I've always preferred a traditional speaker (with my Ax-Fx) when rehearsing with a band or gigging in small venues without a PA.

In venues with personal monitoring, one or two FRFR monitors work just fine. I always apply hi-cut and low-cut though.
 
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I've found it becoming increasingly rare to find venue's that will let you play without going through their FOH system. When I was young, it was actually pretty uncommon to have most smaller clubs mic anything, with the PA being just for vocals. Our amps were our backline and delivered the house sound, so to speak. I think club owners figured everyone had these loud amps so why invest any money into a PA system.

These days though, seems most venue's want total control over the sound levels, and aren't going to let someone have a cranked JCM with 4x12 blasting away. Too much volume and bar tenders can't hear drink orders etc I'm sure. I remember back when I used real amps always being told I had to turn down, and the stage volume was too loud. Seems like most venue's ideally want a silent stage setup and to just provide some monitor levels they control.

Its an interesting shift, and one that units like the Axe work really well for addressing.
 
kmanick said:
I have tried some of Micks earlier wedges, maybe it's time to try them again.
patches?....................I went through about 10 of them yesterday, funny thing was when it was just me playing or just me, the drummer and the bass player
it wasn't 1/2 bad, but when the other guitarist was playing it really jumped out at me at how thin the CLR sounded against a real 2X12 and again it was not a volume issue.
Believe me I wanted this to work , it was so easy to set up and break down yesterday, but it just wasn't working for me. I think I'm going to hold on the the wedge for a little
bit longer and try a few more things , maybe someone wants to send me a patch that I can try that has been "volume tested"
this is basically the sound I'm using for a lot of my set. (Particularly his lead tone, we do this tune ....lots of fun)
Click to expand...


The Double Douche :lol

 
well I'm in no rush or need to sell the CLR right away anyway, if someone could send me some patches thay they think would work for the type of stuff we're doing please send them my way.
I am primarily using 2 guitars for this gig
#1
San dimas jackson Strathead old dimarzio PAF in the bridge and a duncan classic stack in the neck
IMG_5580_zps809db019.jpeg


#2 Charvel San Dimas 59 in the neck , andy Timmons AT-1 in the bridge (which I highly recommend for those who like the JB but wish it was smoother)
both of these guitars have a pus/pull pot to tab the humbuckers.
photo3a_zpsbb276476.jpg


Like I said earlier in the debacle, I really wanted this to work, I am actually pretty bummed out by what occurred yesterday, maybe I will take Yeks approach and just use my real amp for rehearsal and bring the
Axe CLR along to gigs and if the situation warrants it use that instead.
I only run a 10 band EQ , a chorus and a delay in the loop and a wah and clean drive in front.
My analog pedal board is pretty small so bringing both to gigs is not a big deal.
 
After owning and gigging an old 1960s AC50 head and AC30 for many years and then a JVM410 w. 4x12 since they came out I have to say that while I loved the pant wetting volume and sheer power of the setup, I wouldn't trade the Axe and CLR for them. My reasons are (and it's all personal) not only convenience, but I get a consistency with my current setup that I never had with any other. I know what will come out of the speaker when I have the CLR acting as a wedge and I can edit my patches accordingly. It's not the same as the stack for sure and the best working patches I've built have sounded like arse on their own but in context..... oooooooh mama! ;)

It's kinda like the studio sound vs the live guitar sound thing. They're not the same, and they can't be because of the nearfield vs. farfield thing, the after mic processing, etc. and IMHO perhaps people are chasing the studio sound when what they want is the trouser flapping roar behind them. Hell, even your ears have differing frequency responses when the source is behind than in front. However, I've always been more comfortable in the studio so it suits me just fine.

Remember, it's horses for courses! :) You're obviously not an inexperienced guy judging by the equipment list in your sig, so I say go for a nice valve amp but don't throw out the CLR just yet. :)

Oh, and have lots of fun! :)
 
well, i've owned and gigged every Egnater built, a Bogner Shiva and Goldfinger, Fender Twins/Deluxe, Marshall DSL, Budda Superdrive, Genz Benz Diablo and Black Pearl, Vox AC30, Blackstar HT40, Matchless dc30 and Lightning, Tophat, Dr Z...etc. I feel as tough I have a valid opinion on what a good amp sounds like cranked live.

Anyway, if it's not for you, it's not. I don't feel like anyone was suggesting that you were a wanker, just that as guitarists we tend to get a bit of tunnel vision for our tone and don't embrace the big picture.
 
I say go with whatever makes you happy and inspires you to play.

The thread started out with saying the bandmates didn't like the sound of FRFR and preferred your going the cab route. Then is was stated it wasn't really a sound thing but a was a feel issue since you felt it sounded great when playing alone etc. Then all the talk turned back to how to tweak things to make it sound better/different or to go a different FRFR or FRFR/Cab route.

My head is spinning :) so I reiterate and say whatever makes you happy and inspires you (and your bandmates) is the way to go. The beauty of the Axe-Fx is it's diversity and ability to be used in so many different configurations.
 
Sometimes is all about moving air and the feeling from the power. Very hard to replace that 4x12" feeling with a 1/12" cab.
 
kmanick said:
, funny thing was when it was just me playing or just me, the drummer and the bass player
it wasn't 1/2 bad, but when the other guitarist was playing it really jumped out at me at how thin the CLR sounded against a real 2X12 and again it was not a volume issue.

Easy fix, fire the other guitar player!
Click to expand...
 
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