Fletcher Munson - Home Is GREAT! Gig is BAD!!!!!

Another thing to be aware of is that sometimes it's not you, it's the room/stage/sound system. Before you go tweaking your presets to compensate, be sure what you're hearing on stage is in fact what the crowd is hearing. In one of the places I play the stage monitors are sitting on a wood stage which resonates and creates a nasty, farty, bass sound. If I try to compensate (with the low cut), the mains end up sounding weak. Another place I play has cheap stage monitors that make me sound like a tin can. Completely opposite problems, but the same presets.
 
Not really mate... as Rane's post above kinda demonstrates
mellow.gif


Just to try and help a little, I always work my Preset through our PA, along with a multitrack recording of the whole band. Those same presets always translate well to studio monitors, headphones, whatever... but I suspect that's largely because I know what to expect and appreciate that the tones have been worked up for a full mix, not just self-gratification or the 'standing in front of a stack' vibe

Not *that* easy for everyone to do the same I know and to be honest, I've no idea how else I'd do it!
 
I can't believe that someone isn't working on compensating the Fletcher Munson curve.

1. Determine if all people with normal hearing perceive volume changes in a similar way.
2. Set up a reference mic to monitor SPL.
3. Feed an inverted Fletcher Munson cure into Eq to compensate.
4. Have computer vary eq curve according to SPL.
5. To compensate for volume decrease as distance from PA increases, additional distributed speakers could be deployed and fed only the necessary frequencies to compensate for the lowered volume near the auxiliary speakers.

Seems like it could be done right now with a couple mics and SpectraFoo.

By the way I think Fletcher was cool but Munson was an a-hole.
 
Dig around online and find the isolated tracks to some of your favorite pro mixed albums that match your band's sound and style and use the isolated guitar tracks as a guide for your overall eq. If possible play the tracks through you axe fx rig like a backing track and try to match up the response while playing along. It won't be perfect by any stretch, but it will get you in the right ballpark for a "mixed with the band" sound. From there you can do the final tweaking live with your band at gig volume. A good pair of flat response studio headphones might help you too. You can crank those to match up the EQ without pissing off your neighbors. Again won't be perfect, but better than nothing. Unfortunately there is no substitute for final tweaking with the band at gig volume.
 
Xrocker said:
I can't believe that someone isn't working on compensating the Fletcher Munson curve.

1. Determine if all people with normal hearing perceive volume changes in a similar way.
2. Set up a reference mic to monitor SPL.
3. Feed an inverted Fletcher Munson cure into Eq to compensate.
4. Have computer vary eq curve according to SPL.
5. To compensate for volume decrease as distance from PA increases, additional distributed speakers could be deployed and fed only the necessary frequencies to compensate for the lowered volume near the auxiliary speakers.

Seems like it could be done right now with a couple mics and SpectraFoo.

By the way I think Fletcher was cool but Munson was an a-hole.
Click to expand...

I've always thought the same thing. Set up a flat response say at 100 DB and as the DB is decreased sample and adjust the eq all the way down. You could do a spectrum analyzer (at 100 DB) of the room, level the eq then add the FM contraption in and all volume adjustments woul sound the same. There's technology today to make this run in real time. This device would sell.
 
Last edited:
This is not rocket science you know.

It never ceases to puzzle me why people who have spent $2.5k+ on a complex versatile rig would baulk at spending a few extra bucks on rehearsal studio fees to get this problem under control.

All I did was take my rig to a good rehearsal studio, hire the biggest room, took backing CDs to play along with and tweaked my patches with a laptop and axe edit until I was happy with them. It's important to stand in different places and decide on the physical placement of amp to ear; and try and find a physical configuration that will work at the kind of gigs/stages you expect to play in. That got me about 80% there. Then I arranged 3-4 jams (once again at a rehearsal studio) with fellow gear freaks who like playing and testing their rigs. This pretty much got me there.

While I was at it I ran o/ps to the studio PA and tweaked the global out eq until I had a sound (with a flat desk eq) that I was happy with. The one time I gigged and went direct to desk the sound guy really liked the sound and barely tweaked it. A minutes worth of rhythm and lead and we were done.

This setup translated very well to rooms of different sizes, and I have not had to do any tweaking on the fly. If I did I would just use the Boss Sniper GE-7 that I run in front of the axe to even out the gain between Strat and LP. I've always just left the eq flat.

All this cost me around $150 in studio hire for an enjoyable time tweaking away at gig volumes. My gig rig now lives packed up in the garage and the duplicate Ultra in my home studio rarely gets turned on. I do most of my practice on my ES-175 unplugged.

I understand that many axe owners have not had to go this path so YMMV. What's not to like though? I got to jam (not rehearse) with friends and experiment with my gear. Win/Win I say.
 
Just to add to the above......I've also found that if you can notice your reverb and delay: it's probably too much. I find I get a better balance if I adjust R&D to a level where I can just notice that it's not there when I A/B it off and on. The louder you get the more you have to reduce reverb and delay for basic rhythm and lead patches. Feature effects where the music makes space for the effect is a different thing of course.
 
This may have been mentioned already but see if you can find the thread on here about Yek's mid-boost trick - it totally solved the problem you are describing for me.

Essentially, place a filter block near the end of your signal chain in the Axe Fx, and set it for a 3-4dB boost to the mids.

You can assign the bypass of this block to an unused controller so it can quickly be engaged/disengaged in all patches.

This works great for me - I turn it off at home or low volume and on at high volume.

Oh yeah - your bassist is really good! When I realized he was playing with one hand my mouth dropped open!
 
^--- that's a good solution.

The trick to good home sound and bad live sound is to get good live sound by getting good at dialling in bad home sound, in the right way.

Low level sound should have lots of low-to-medium mids and sound generally muddy, what some people describe as "blanket over the -speaker tone". At high volume, the mids will give your tone the muscle to not get lost in he mix, and deep bass and highs will be more apparent, without being overpowering.
 
You have to dial in your live presets at gig volume. Nothing else worked for me other than that. That will get me in the 90% plus range - final tweak comes at sound check (like you would with a real amp/pedals).

After a while you start developing a sense of where things should be live vs home and it becomes easier.

Eventually you get into the habit (at least I did) of duplicating my presets and creating versions of the same preset for different guitars/volumes etc. The learning curve on the Axe involves not just parameter tweaking but your ears as well.
 
Here's a bit of FM wisdom that caused me to program a pseudo anti-Fletcher Munson GEQ a while back. Unfortunately the block is no longer compatible with the current firmware, but that doesn't mean it can't be recreated fairly simply. I forget who posted it originally, but it's worth a read:

=================================

My Anti FM EQ is a little rought to say the least for a number of reasons. Firstly its a Graphic EQ Im using, which wont generate a smooth frequency curve. Secondly there are only 2 available EQs (one on each global), so you can only set up for two volume levels - deviating from those levels will make the settings less effective (sometimes a relativelty small increase/decrease in volume has a noticeable effect). Lastly it depends on the room - we all know some a boomy, some are bright etc.

That said, I took one of the many FM curves published, and chose a loud level (110db in my case) as my reference. Thats my flat EQ, and represents my gig volume level. i then chose a quieter level - 80db initially though I think I play louder than that at home - and mapped the "offsets" - ie how much each freq differed from the reference. then I played at both levels and fine tuned by ear - actually the offsets were generally reduced because I was louder than the 80db I plotted on the chart.

using this doesnt mean i dont have to fine tune to a room, or to a live volulme but its pretty close normally. My "home" eq curve doesnt change as I generally play at the same level.

All that waffle out of the way, Ive settled on the following EQs for my home use:

32 hz: +4db
65 hz +2.4db
125 hz +1.5db
250hz -0.5db
500hz -1.2db
1 Khz +0.5db
2 Khz +1.75db
4 Khz +1.5db
8 Khz +3.0db
16 Khz +0.5db
=========================================

I inverted all of the settings on the GEQ block I setup, and as you might imagine, it cuts lows and highs while boosting the midrange. Not necessarily a panacea, but a good place to start.


 
I've had a lot of luck pulling the high cut down in the cab block as low as 5-6k. It de-harshes at loud volumes IMHO.

I also realize that the axe sounds different loud than my old triaxis rig did... for some reason it didn't seem to change all that much except at really loud volumes.
 
Tons of good info in this thread. To the OP, if I read your post right your somewhat new to playing live or with other people. Were you a bedroom rock star before that? (just asking because that is what you sort of said.) It sounds to me like you have a very simple (and common) case of bedroom tone. FM is one explanation for it, but what I have found with bedroom guitarists is that when they play alone, they seem to try to fill out all the sonic space. They try to include frequencies that are the domain of the bass and cymbals in their sound, because when all alone it sounds better to them. The guitar the way it SHOULD SOUND by itself sounds naked and thin because the bass and drums are not there to complete the sonic picture for you. SO... you end up dialing up a bunch of bass and treble, and then when you play with other instruments you disappear.

The answer is to download some backing tracks (as suggested by someone above) and go to your practice space, blast the tracks through the PA and jam to them at full volume. Try Free Guitar Backing Tracks @ GuitarBackingTrack.com
Then you can at least get a somewhat closer idea of what you should be sounding like. It won't be the same as real drums and bass, but far better than guessing at it in your bedroom. When in doubt, add more mids. This is where guitar lives. By itself, it can sound a bit "honky", but live it will work much better.
 
You could try adding a parametric eq that rolls off around 120hz and boosts around 3db between 1-3khz. Adjust the 4-5khz range if you want to emphasize or cut the presence. If your preset has reverb playing live you could try a short delay instead or try adjusting the pre-delay on the reverb higher to avoid muddiness. If I use reverb live I rarely go over 4-8% mix

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Yeah, here he is again... good old Fletcher....every guitarist’s hemorrhoid…besides that; he’s a pain in the ass.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom