Why does my output clip so soon with certain amps?

Stringtheorist

Stringtheorist

Fractal Fanatic
I have a basic patch set up for my Les Paul using the 59 Bassguy model. Just an amp and cab (TAF Mars 4x12 Mix Room UltraRes) in the chain. Amp parameters all set to default (Master Vol maxed). I cannot push the Level control past -7 without clipping Output 1. Is this because my guitar is too hot? Lowering Input Trim helps a bit but not much. Inst In in the I/O menu reads 51.4%. What is the solution to getting more headroom out of this amp?
 
IIRC there's a lot of bass in that model. And bass frequencies tend to boost the signal level a lot. Especially when using humbuckers.

Anyway, just decrease Amp level. That doesn't affect tone or gain. Adjusting Input Trim however does.

P.S. Seriously, I don't understand the problems users have with clipping. It's just a matter of setting and maintaining a "safe" margin right from the start.
There's no benefit at all to setting preset levels close to clipping. Just decrease (Amp) level in all presets and compensate by turning up the front panel knob.
 
yek said:
Anyway, just decrease Amp level. That doesn't affect tone or gain. Adjusting Input Trim however does.
Click to expand...
Do you mean Inst In or Input Trim?

Stringtheorist said:
I cannot push the Level control past -7 without clipping Output 1.
Click to expand...
As yek said, there might be a lot of low frequencies you don't hear, but they keep "pushing" the output meter. By the way, on some amps my level control is like -13 dB. I don't see any problem in keeping it way below 0 dB.
 
yek said:
IIRC there's a lot of bass in that model. And bass frequencies tend to boost the signal level a lot. Especially when using humbuckers.

Anyway, just decrease Amp level. That doesn't affect tone or gain. Adjusting Input Trim however does.

P.S. Seriously, I don't understand the problems users have with clipping. It's just a matter of setting and maintaining a "safe" margin right from the start.
There's no benefit at all to setting preset levels close to clipping. Just decrease (Amp) level in all presets and compensate by turning up the front panel knob.
Click to expand...
When the wise speak the foolish stay silent!

So I'll shut up now...



FYI, that means: +1
 
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Stillbruch said:
Do you mean Inst In or Input Trim?


As yek said, there might be a lot of low frequencies you don't hear, but they keep "pushing" the output meter. By the way, on some amps my level control is like -13 dB. I don't see any problem in keeping it way below 0 dB.
Click to expand...
I have one at -28 dB and several in the -23 to -20 range. And they're not that far from the clipping LED. Just push the master and you'll be in those ranges pretty easily.

And there is the thing of your amplification. If it doesn't go as low as your presets you may not be hearing the bass content they do have.
I remember a user being highly vocal about the CLR being boomy, contrary to about all other users experiences, while all the time refusing to examine if it just may be his presets that were boomy... Nope, it was the CLR's fault. He seems very happy with a smaller bandwidth solution.

I'm talking too much again...
 
Stringtheorist said:
The problem I have is that I end up cranking my Axe and CLR's output controls to near maximum and I'm still not loud enough. (I am using my CLR as backline, positioned on the floor.)
Click to expand...
:shock


You might need to have "the talk" with your drummer.

CLR is, like, 500 Watts?
 
Stringtheorist said:
The problem I have is that I end up cranking my Axe and CLR's output controls to near maximum and I'm still not loud enough. (I am using my CLR as backline, positioned on the floor.)
Click to expand...
Cut the unnecessary parts of the low frequencies or tame them with a CPR/MBC. Does that help?

yek said:
Input Trim, because that what's the OP mentioned.
Click to expand...
Ah ok, I just mixed up Instr In and Input Trim.
 
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Stringtheorist said:
The problem I have is that I end up cranking my Axe and CLR's output controls to near maximum and I'm still not loud enough. (I am using my CLR as backline, positioned on the floor.)
Click to expand...

That's weird. No matter how hard you play, the CLR should be able to keep up.

For most volume:
- crank the Axe-Fx's front output knob
- set the CLR's Input Gain to just before clipping
- turn up its Master all the way (never mind the Speaker Limiter Indication).

This should damage your ears, the bandmembers', and all of your family too, except those who emigrated.

BTW, the on-the-floor position is the least recommended one. Try putting it on a chair, table, whatever, and switch it to FF.
 
Stillbruch said:
Cut the unnecessary parts of the low frequencies or tame them with a CPR/MBC. Does that help?
Click to expand...

Nope, not really. I did everything... Raised Low cut in the Adv tab, dropped the 63 freq in the Graphic EQ, bass cut in the EQ page. Still couldn't push the level further than -5. :/
 
Make sure your tone has some medium to high mids. That's where the "cutting" frequencies live. Not too scooped or it will disappear. Maybe some comp?

I was serious about that talk. Usually with the drummer but possibly some other doing the volume war thing.
 
Dutch said:
I have one at -28 dB and several in the -23 to -20 range. And they're not that far from the clipping LED. Just push the master and you'll be in those ranges pretty easily.
Click to expand...

+1

Especially non-MV amps, with a high Input Drive setting. My meaty JTM preset needs to have its Amp level set at -22 or so, to match my other presets.

Still no danger of clipping at higher amp levels, because I keep that "safe margin".
 
yek said:
That's weird. No matter how hard you play, the CLR should be able to keep up.

For most volume:
- crank the Axe-Fx's front output knob
- set the CLR's Input Gain to just before clipping
- turn up its Master all the way (never mind the Speaker Limiter Indication).

This should damage your ears, the bandmembers', and all of your family too, except those who emigrated.

BTW, the on-the-floor position is the least recommended one. Try putting it on a chair, table, whatever, and switch it to FF.
Click to expand...

I used to have it on a pole but I found I preferred it in contact with the floor for the extra low end "feel".
I'm not sure how to set the CLR input gain to "before clipping"...? At last rehearsal, I basically had the Input 1 Vol at near full and the Master at near full with the Axe Out 1 at about 3 o'clock. I couldn't be heard on the other side of the drummer unless I pointed the speaker across the room. So I've been upping the levels of all my global amps. Can't do so with the Bassguy though.
 
yek said:
120dB continuous / 130dB peak !!!
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WHich is off course the unit that actually matters! Forget about Watts.

BTW, that's instant eardestruction right there.

I think now is the time to go shut up again having proved my position in the wisdom ladder...
 
The CLR is 500W, but that's for the very brief signal peaks. I'm finding the same problem, that using some relatively clean patches and avoiding very obvious clipping in the AxeFX and/or CLR from the dynamic attack results in a generally quite low average volume level. I prefer to match levels roughly between patches, but it's not really very loud.
 
Dutch said:
Make sure your tone has some medium to high mids. That's where the "cutting" frequencies live. Not too scooped or it will disappear. Maybe some comp?

I was serious about that talk. Usually with the drummer but possibly some other doing the volume war thing.
Click to expand...
Nope, it's not the drummer being too loud (not this time). It's because all my global amp levels have been gradually reduced to match the Bassguy's non-clipping level.
 
Stringtheorist said:
I'm not sure how to set the CLR input gain to "before clipping"...?
Click to expand...

See the CLR manual for proper gain staging. If you're overloading the input (Input on the CLR too high), sound will suffer or a limiter will be applied.

The CLR is a FRFR amp. If you need extra low end, you need to dial that in through your presets, not by changing the operation mode of the CLR. The on-the-floor (BL) mode BTW is the least "FRFR" mode of the CLR.

Don't use the BL mode when placing the CLR on a chair, use the FR mode.
 
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