Still struggling with the ac30tb model

Wow, since the masters have joined the conversation let me try and rephrase the question: on the ac30tb model set for edge of breakup, is there a way to have the attack actually break up as opposed to being super sharp? I find that increasing xfrm match around 1.5 / 2 kind of does that, but then it gets a little too crunchy and less dynamic..

I know there are lots of variables between amps (I own 3 ac30's and had 2 more and they all sound / feel different)

And yes, of course I'm taking in consideration the difference between amp in the room vs mic, in fact I'm not comparing the axe vs my amps, but axe vs clips of miked amps. And yes, I am using the herdim pick.

And finally, are there any guidelines to capture ir's of amps without fx loop?
 
indeloon85 said:
Something to also note about the Edge's tone is his actual pick. Not sure what you are using, but he uses the picks the Herdim Standard Nylon picks and uses them upside down which takes away that abrassiveness and adds more chime.

Also, I have found that the IR's for AC30's have NEVER felt right. That being said, I shot an old 1964 AC30 a couple months ago that doesn't have that "stiffness" you are talking about.

See if any of that helps!
Click to expand...


Very interesting thread.
I can't really help just because Edo is going to far from me.

But , as Edo is a very nice guy never taking the thing to him, i must precise some aspect.
(no problem with anybody, just to make the discussion more fluent ;) )

If The Edge himself had an accident and should be replaced on tour, I see probably only two guys able to do that within an minute.
Mick, which received for some weeks the visit on stage from The Edge during one of his gig,
and of course Edo.

Also, YES, Edo is THE specialist of U2 cover, and YES, he plays with Herdim pick and know what an AC30 sounds like in a U2 configuration.

If sceptical, some clic on YouTube and you will understand what I mean !

Great thread !!

@edo.
I hope you will find your path in direction of the perfect AC30TB ! :D
(I didn't read well your post and your precision about the herdim pick before posting myself)
 
Me too enjoing this thread as a spectator... I have never played a real VOX, Me and my friends played tons of vintage Fender and Marshalls... and they ALL, ALL (did I say ALL) sound different, even we bought the same model.

But all my support to OP to follow his quest and tone hunt for the "real" VOX tone. We all going to learn from it. People will chime in on their experience. If (god forbid) there is some mistake in the modeling of VOX, FAS will correct it accordingly and we are all winners...

I say EDO, you rock, for basically shaking the boat :D

Its all good
 
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FIRST OF ALL: I'm talking with the maximum respect for the experience and the knowledge of a cover-pro like Edo and for his tone reserch
that said... i have two reference use of the AC30: May and The Edge
setting in the Axe the chain that emulate the rigs of those 2 guitarists... (oh well.. and for The Edge using wathever picks with some grip upside-down) my ears say that i'm absolutely in the ballpark of those tones.
But Edo have a prob with the pick-attak and the edge of breackup of the tone.
Ok to me here we are focusing on an area that i call: TRANSIENTS
Transients are important in many ways in the music (mostly on drums and cymbals) and typical tools for the transients are compressors, multiband compressors and eqs... or some transients-shaper that are a combos of all the previous.
BUT for the guitar... in a full mix... or live... that so fine detail... is really an issue?!?
 
edo said:
I'm trying to get the ultimate amp core tone to use as starting point for all the patches adding fx, I'm using this reference as I know it's just guitar > axe fx (delay only) > Vox 1 (which is a Vox ac30hw2 set to cool, so technically an ac30tb). But like I said, my concern is not the tone, eventually I'll get there. The problem now is the attack on the amp model, which sounds way too "clicky"
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and this:

Thanks for your advice, but I'd expect to obtain the authentic Vox tone from the Vox model!
Click to expand...

I don't get it. You've got a toolkit that includes a variety of amp models and effects. Why don't you use them to achieve the sound you want, without getting stuck on whether or not the modeled sound construction maps one to one to the elements of the original sound?
 
@indeloon85 love your IR's! I'm still using the first one you posted a while back. I'm mixing our most recent live show where I used your IR. Sounded killer live and in the mix too.
 
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edo said:
Wow, since the masters have joined the conversation let me try and rephrase the question: on the ac30tb model set for edge of breakup, is there a way to have the attack actually break up as opposed to being super sharp? I find that increasing xfrm match around 1.5 / 2 kind of does that, but then it gets a little too crunchy and less dynamic..

I know there are lots of variables between amps (I own 3 ac30's and had 2 more and they all sound / feel different)

And yes, of course I'm taking in consideration the difference between amp in the room vs mic, in fact I'm not comparing the axe vs my amps, but axe vs clips of miked amps. And yes, I am using the herdim pick.

And finally, are there any guidelines to capture ir's of amps without fx loop?
Click to expand...
Sounds like someone needs Cab Lab 3.
 
I spent the day looking into this. As it turns out the TB model is wrong because the cathode follower values weren't entered (Preamp Comp is 0.0). Unfortunately you can't just turn that up to fix it as the CF Ratio should be 1.96 and that's outside the allowed range. So the next firmware release will have this fixed and will expand the range to allow the required CF Ratio value. While I was at it I added a "Class-A 30W Bright" model and re-matched the existing models to our reference amp.

In the interim you can get close by setting Preamp Comp to 75%, CF Time to 3.7 ms and CF Ratio to 1.0. Xfrmr Match should be reduced as well since I realized that the typical Celestion Blue speakers have a lower voice coil resistance than I used in the calculations. Set it to 0.8 and adjust to taste from there. There's a bunch of other small changes I made but those will get you in the ballpark.
 
Toopy14 said:
I understand why Edge puts the delay at the end of his chain when he's using a real amp., however, I didn't think the same rules applied in the digital world. Doesn't the delay sound better after the amp./cab.?
Click to expand...
Not necessarily
 
FractalAudio said:
I spent the day looking into this. As it turns out the TB model is wrong because the cathode follower values weren't entered (Preamp Comp is 0.0).
Click to expand...

Interesting! I really like the Vox model, so it will be interesting to hear what the 'correct' model sounds like!
 
i noticed something weird about the TB at my last gig. i've been messing with it the last few days and thought i'd done something wrong. it felt kinda hard and the top end wasn't quite right. glad to know it wasn't me. i made the changes that cliff suggested above and it's a definite improvement, so looking forward to the re-jigged model :)
 
Cliff, is this a new glitch/recent, or has this been the case for a long time?

I have gravitated away from the AC30 and tended towards AC15 or DC30 in the Axe, when I want that sound.
 
Toopy14 said:
I understand why Edge puts the delay at the end of his chain when he's using a real amp., however, I didn't think the same rules applied in the digital world. Doesn't the delay sound better after the amp./cab.?
Click to expand...

I assume you meant you understand why the Edge puts the delay before the amp but think the delay sounds better after the amp/cab. This depends on what you are going for. For much of the U2 stuff... no, b/c the delay is driving the amp and you can't get that sound with the delay after the amp. In some cases it's not going to matter but when the delay is used as part of the core sound (e.g. dotted 1/8 delay at 50%) then having it before the amp is definitely different.
 
Whoa, and I was just having a blast playing Pride, in the Name of Love, and thinking how absolutely spot-on I sounded.

The never-ending quest for perfection from Cliff and FAS. Thank you.
 
FractalAudio said:
While I was at it I added a "Class-A 30W Bright" model and re-matched the existing models to our reference amp.
Click to expand...

Thanks Cliff for your seemingly un-ending dedication to this effort.

So what is the Class-A 30W Bright model? I assume it's a variation on the AC30 (non-top boost) but brighter?
And the existing models are based on two separate amps (AC30 and AC30TB)? I'm just a little confused b/c the quote says "amp" (singular).

In any event, I look forward to playing with the new model as well as the re-matched models.
 
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