Questions about the FM9 before purchasing

[Bruce Sokolovic]

So based on my set up what could I do? I got the syn 2 going into the LXII and both of those going into the Furman PC Plus. I have the LXII connected to my 4x12 cab. I'm using gold monster cables for the cable to my guitar that connects to the syn 2, and for my FX loop coming out of the syn 2 to a Boss ME 70 (soon to be replaced by the FM9). I'm using 1.5ft jumper cables to connect the syn2 to the LXII.

Have you plugged into different circuits? different rooms? Different houses? You can test this a lot. Is it 60 cycle hum or is it noise from the amp(s)? If its 60 cycle hum, those hum eliminators might fix it for you. You really shouldnt be getting much noise at all with just that synergy and a power amp. A million variables. Single coil hum? Get the rig away from lights/screens/computers? Does the noise go away if you turn a certain direction? Start scientifically weeding out possibilities. Is it a poorly shielded guitar? You see where this is going? It can be next to anything up to and including ghosts of your passed ancestors making noise. You have to weed things out, one by one.

 

[AlexMania]

I just upgraded from my beloved FM3 to a FM9T. I absolutely love love love my FM3, which is now on its way to another forum member. I received my FM9T two days ago and all I can say is WOW. I can literally do anything I could possibly ever imagine with ease.

The concept of gapless switching is moot with two amps. I've never used more than one amp at a time IRL and I don't expect that to change but to have 4 clean amps that can switch to 4 dirty amps seamlessly is a holy grail I didn't know I needed. To those less green than I, it's a yawn. To me, it's absolutely miraculous to have two amps, two ultra high quality cabs, two best quality reverbs, all my effects, and be hitting 55% CPU.

OK, I love love love my FM9.

 

[unix-guy]

The concept of gapless switching is moot with two amps.

Not completely... There are still some other blocks that can introduce gaps.

And you have to "plan ahead" when changing channels on the Amp block, so unless you use only 1 channel per Amp block there's still a benefit to gapless switching (assuming it rolls down from Axe Fx III).

 

[911ap]

Have you plugged into different circuits? different rooms? Different houses? You can test this a lot. Is it 60 cycle hum or is it noise from the amp(s)? If its 60 cycle hum, those hum eliminators might fix it for you. You really shouldnt be getting much noise at all with just that synergy and a power amp. A million variables. Single coil hum? Get the rig away from lights/screens/computers? Does the noise go away if you turn a certain direction? Start scientifically weeding out possibilities. Is it a poorly shielded guitar? You see where this is going? It can be next to anything up to and including ghosts of your passed ancestors making noise. You have to weed things out, one by one.

 

[AlexMania]

Not completely... There are still some other blocks that can introduce gaps.

And you have to "plan ahead" when changing channels on the Amp block, so unless you use only 1 channel per Amp block there's still a benefit to gapless switching (assuming it rolls down from Axe Fx III).

100%. In my simplistic needs, having 4 clean-ish amps and 4 crunchy amps to pick from so I wind up with one clean and one crunchy per evening, is all I need. Famous last words now that I have all this excess power.

 

[911ap]

here is something I have seen quite a bit. Steve vai is the same way with his fractal set up. Why do these guys still use pedals? John Petucci uses a lot of pedals. Steve Vai uses his vai distortion pedal (which I believe is just a boss OD1 and TS808 in one), a digitech whammy pedal, and a wah pedal.

If the fractal can recreate all of these why are they still using pedals with their Axe FX III?

 

[unix-guy]

here is something I have seen quite a bit. Steve vai is the same way with his fractal set up. Why do these guys still use pedals? John Petucci uses a lot of pedals. Steve Vai uses his vai distortion pedal (which I believe is just a boss OD1 and TS808 in one), a digitech whammy pedal, and a wah pedal.

If the fractal can recreate all of these why are they still using pedals with their Axe FX III?

Because they like what they have and they have people who take care of moving their rigs, setting up, tearing down, etc...

 

[911ap]

Because they like what they have and they have people who take care of moving their rigs, setting up, tearing down, etc...

Then what is the point of having it? For instance in the case of Vai his delay and chorus come from the fractal. So they pay 3000+ dollars or more for what then? Doesn't really make sense.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

Then what is the point of having it? For instance in the case of Vai his delay and chorus come from the fractal. So they pay 3000+ dollars or more for what then? Doesn't really make sense.

Doesn't have to make sense to anyone but them, I guess....

 

[unix-guy]

Then what is the point of having it? For instance in the case of Vai his delay and chorus come from the fractal. So they pay 3000+ dollars or more for what then? Doesn't really make sense.

That's a question to ask them...

I'm pretty sure Vai uses much more than Delay and Chorus, and I believe at least part of the Hydra gets amp modeling, too.

In any case, I don't care - I use them for what I want because they do everything I need incredibly well, not because Vai or some other famous guitarist uses it.

 

[911ap]

John Mayer is another one who uses a fractal but he uses like 200 pedals.

 

[Admin M@]

I'm pretty sure Vai uses much more than Delay and Chorus

Much much more. Some of his own presets have been wildly creative. And yes, there is some amp modeling in there too.

 

[InsideOut]

Much much more. Some of his own presets have been wildly creative. And yes, there is some amp modeling in there too.

Never would have guessed his presets would be creative - his playing is so mainstream.

 

[unix-guy]

John Mayer is another one who uses a fractal but he uses like 200 pedals.

What is the point you're trying to make?

The Fractal Artist roster is huge and full of amazingly talented musicians.

 

[Doogz]

Doesn't have to make sense to anyone but them, I guess...

Completely correct - his tunes, his sound, his business - the only person it needs to make sense to is Steve

I'm pretty sure Vai uses much more than Delay and Chorus, and I believe at least part of the Hydra gets amp modeling, t

I saw Steve Vai last night in Melbourne AU (brilliant show - front row!) ... his Axe FX was going nuts in the Hydra song - pretty much all ouputs going:

 

[playmusic]

...

If the fractal can recreate all of these why are they still using pedals with their Axe FX III?

Lots of users of all brands of modelers still use some of their favorite pedals, often in an effects loop. One advantage is offloading some of the processing to external pedals can leave more horsepower for extra blocks on the modeler. Additionally, some folks like twisting knobs directly on their external pedals. Or maybe they just can't get the exact sound of that pedal dialed in on their modeler. Other players opt for an all-in-one solution. Speaking for myself, as you alluded to, I try to replace every external pedal with an FM9 block if possible. I think it comes down to personal preference and/or preset requirements.

 

[dsouza]

I bet you there will be many younger musicians that will all go digital once the prices of Amp modelling comes way down and becomes more widely accepted. It just seems we live in the digital age with cell phone, tablets, Ipads, Digital Money etc.

I think right now we're still at that stage where a lot of people are coming from the traditional valve amp/pedal world and you're not going to change them just because you've gone digital.

But as the FAS gets more and more affordable and AMP modelling gets more and more accurate it will simply become the cleanest solution to 99% of pedal problems. The thing is using a FAS requires logic. Not all musicians like logic or math. Some are purely creative and don't want to get involved in technicalities too much. Many older people never grew up with computers, and even if they did just basic WIndows and Mac , not really getting into programming or engineering. So amps and pedals are still easier for them to learn.

Then you've got pedal collectors. Sometimes people collect pedals to add to their collection. It's nuts. No way MOST musicians will use 200 pedals but that doesn't mean they won't have them in their arsenal for justification if they need them at some point.

Like it's been said FAS isn't going anywhere. It's only going to grow. And with products for every price range more and more people will get on board.

Let's actually be thankful not everyone knows about FAS because that gives most of us on here a headstart in a very competitive market to begin with.

 

[josephyballew]

Hi all. Just joined this forum. After a long hiatus with guitar I decided to recreate my entire set up to reignite the fire. Basically sold everything and started fresh. Currently have a Friedman BE-100 deluxe with a Friedman 4x12 cabinet running through a Ibanez PIA.

I'm conflicted on what to do with effects. Trying to decide if I should go with the FM9 or run all analog with pedals. I know fractal claims they can accurately reproduce any pedal, I have no experience to verify that. Figured this forum would be a great place to find out.

I don't use that many effects. Mostly if I use a flanger or phaser it's for Van Halen songs. Therefore, the evh flanger/phaser would be what I would want to recreate. For a distortion or boost pedal I'd probably only use a TS808 or SD-1. I typically like to get my distortions from the amplifier vs effects. For the delay I would be looking at recreating the echo plex. For the chorus I'd want to simulate the clone chorus and the boss chorus. Wah probably a cry baby and a whammy I figure is straight forward.

The rest of the stuff like an eq pedal, a noise suppressor, tuner, etc.... I figure doesn't matter that much, whatever fractal has I'm sure will be more than adequate. Essentially, I'd want to run all the switches as individual pedals and basically use the FM9 as a very clean pedalboard just for effects. Not really into the modeling but I'll probably try it to see how close it can get to actual amplifiers. Hey if it can recreate a jcm 800 or super lead perfectly I'll use them.

I do also have a synergy set up coming with a couple syn 2's that have the IICP+, vai, Soldano, and uberschall modules which is another reason I am less concerned about the modeling aspect of this unit.

When I tried to research on the fractal page where people upload effects files for instance, I didn't see anything specific to those individual effects. Most of them were files for Van Halen's early sound for example which included all of the effects in the file. I'm trying to separate them out by individual pedal though.

Any would be greatly appreciated by the forum.

 

[911ap]

What is the point you're trying to make?

The Fractal Artist roster is huge and full of amazingly talented musicians.

The point I am trying to make it is that if the FM9 or Axe or any fractal system can truly replicate any pedal, then it makes zero sense to have any analogue pedal in your rig. It's just over complicating a set up for no reason. So Metallica for instance is an example I can think of where it's logical. They started using a fractal and it has 100% replaced their entire rig. They don't use amps, cabinets, or pedals at all. Then there is Steve vai who kept his digitech whammy and his own vai distortion pedal. Which maybe he keeps his pedal because it's HIS pedal.

Then there is the extreme of John Mayer who I feel maybe just keeps all the pedals because this man has bought every most expensive piece of gear that practically exists in the guitar world.

 

[911ap]

Lots of users of all brands of modelers still use some of their favorite pedals, often in an effects loop. One advantage is offloading some of the processing to external pedals leaves plenty of horsepower left on the AFX for other blocks. Additionally, some folks like twisting knobs directly on their external pedals. Or maybe they just can't get the exact sound of that pedal dialed in on their modeler. Other players opt for an all-in-one solution. Speaking for myself, as you alluded to, I try to replace every external pedal with an FM9 block if possible. I think it comes down to personal preference and/or preset requirements.

Yes. What I'm getting at it maybe they keep it because as you said they want to be able to easily adjust the settings, or that they just couldn't truly replicate the sound.

When I first got into guitar Line 6 with their spider amps and everyone in any guitar center would sell modeling as being able to replicate tube amps back then. This was like the early 2000s. That was complete BS. I put that little amp side by side to marshall, fender, and mesa and it never got that true tube tone. Even when I bought their hybrid modeling/tube combo it still wasn't identical.

The synergy system is the closest I have heard today in person that will replicate an amp, where the only way you hear a difference is if you A/B them to the original with no more than a 5 second gap between playing.

I have zero experience with Fractal but I will definitely give it a shot. Because if you can replicate anything in such a compact set up, why would anyone waste money or time to have 100 pedals? It overcomplicates your set up, creates so many variables that can affect your tone or feedback, and it's more costly to have less functionality.

Just logically makes zero sense.