Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR - UPDATED 7/27/09

[surlybrewer]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

WOW!

 

[GuitarDojo]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

Hang in there guys, production is now officially in progress! I will provide a more detailed update with timeline by the end of the weekend.

-TK

 

[GM Arts]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

I don't think anyone doubts that Tom makes awesome amps, and that the AxeFX will sound awesome through one of them. I think most of us agree the AxeFX sounds incredible through any quality system, particularly since version 7.

I'm curious though: if Cliff & Tom think the AxeFX sounds better through a tube amp than SS, does that mean there's still room for more "tube amp realism" in the AxeFX?

<<< edited above para to "better than SS" instead of "better than FRFR" - the Atomic is FRFR of course >>>

Please understand I'm not flaming; as I siad, just curious. I'm very happy with what the AxeFX gives me through by RCF FRFR now. Sure, there are a few tube amp sounds I haven't been able to dial in yet. I've also played through plenty of tube amps that don't sound as good as what I get from the AxeFX.

 

[srooijens]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

I'm curious though: if Cliff & Tom think the AxeFX sounds better through a tube amp than an FRFR, then that means there's still room for more "realism" in the AxeFX?

What made you reach the conclusion that Cliff & Tom think the AxeFX sounds better through a tube amp than an FRFR?
AFAIK the've never stated that and the Atomic FR according to the information we have by all means IS FRFR. Why would they develop it that way if it was not optimal?

S.R.

 

[mitch236]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

Why does it need tubes? SS amps have come a long way and in fact are in most high end audio systems currently. There should be no reason to have tubes in a FR solution.

 

[Shaloha]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

Why does it need tubes? SS amps have come a long way and in fact are in most high end audio systems currently. There should be no reason to have tubes in a FR solution.

Hi Mitch...I remembered that Tom discussed the Tube vs SS issue, and whether tubes would "detract" from an FRFR system...I did a quick search on what he had to say, and come up with what I copied below...I probably missed some comments (51 pages on that thread), but here it is for you to take a look at (if you remembered or searched for all that before, I apologize for the duplication here, but maybe others will find it useful)...

from...TOM KING posts:

Why do you choose to go with tubes?: After doing extensive R&D and considering solid state, digital and hybrid options, we found that tubes performed the best in overall sound quality and seriously helped to achieve the presence (“in the room feel”) we were looking for. We have our ideas on how to potentially get those other technologies to work in this type of application but considering development time, target pricing and overcoming the general negative market perception of them, tubes were clearly the best fit for this product.

We used a tube power amp because after doing significant R&D is sounded better than any other option we had heard. This is NOT a statement about the Axe's cab simulation - strictly about good amplification.

I have a hard time understanding why people care whether it uses tubes, solid state or a mouse on a wheel if it sounds great, weighs less than similar solutions, is affordable and compact.

The Axe-Fx does not needs tubes! It needs a great sounding, transparent amplification source. That is what we set out to deliver to our customers that delivers the goods consistently at low, med, and high volumes.

Have you ever heard a tube hifi system break up?

Tube amp break up, whether it is in a guitar amp or hifi system is quite different than the nasty/harsh clipping that occurs in solid state amps. Do not confuse the two sonically.

The bottom line is that the Reactor FR is closer to “flat” than many SS or digital FRFR monitor solutions. As such, it will get you as close to the FOH sound as most anything (IMHO), assuming the house system is close to "flat". The benefit we tout as a reason to use a Reactor FR is that we feel that combined with an Axe-Fx, it delivers a very natural and punchy sound that feels like you are in the room with a traditional amp. These characteristics are not reliant upon whether a unit is "flat" or not.

 

[GM Arts]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

I'm curious though: if Cliff & Tom think the AxeFX sounds better through a tube amp than an FRFR, then that means there's still room for more "realism" in the AxeFX?

What made you reach the conclusion that Cliff & Tom think the AxeFX sounds better through a tube amp than an FRFR?
AFAIK the've never stated that and the Atomic FR according to the information we have by all means IS FRFR. Why would they develop it that way if it was not optimal?

S.R.

That's what they said at the initial public outing, that they thought it sounded better through a tube amp that SS. See quote above (thanks, Shaloha). I corrected my post: I meant "better than SS", not "better than FRFR".

 

[srooijens]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

That's what they said at the initial public outing, that they thought it sounded better through a tube amp that SS. See quote above (thanks, Shaloha).

Read it again, that is not what they said. directly from the post above:

The Axe-Fx does not needs tubes! It needs a great sounding, transparent amplification source.

The intention is to provide linear amplification. Within the available resources for developtment of the atomic they felt a tube amp was the best option for that. It could have been done just as well with another technology but that would have required more R&D. Tube amplification is what Atomic has been doing in the past and what they're most familiar with.
Many other factors than sound quality were important for this choice:

We have our ideas on how to potentially get those other technologies to work in this type of application but considering development time, target pricing and overcoming the general negative market perception of them, tubes were clearly the best fit for this product.

If anything this post by Tom confirms the same result could have been obtained with other means as well.
The tube amp performed best within the stated limits.
It never said tube amps in general would perform better than other types of amplification.
Just that it would take more R&D to get the same performance from something else, tube amps is what Atomic has lots of experience with already.

The tube amp in the Atomic FR is quite likely the best sounding option available within the stated limits.
generalization of this very specific situation to say "tube amps sound better" without those constraints IMO is not valid and misrepresenting what Tom has said.

S.R.

 

[GM Arts]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

Yes, I've read what they said and I interpret it as that they thought tubes sounded better than other solutions they tried, specifically: "... we found that tubes performed the best in overall sound quality and seriously helped to achieve the presence (“in the room feel”) we were looking for." followed by a suggestion that they might be able to develop other technologies to sound as good. That's fine - people have been trying to develop tube-sounding SS power amps for 40+ years and no-one's done it yet.

So my question is just an honest curiosity about potential for the AxeFX. Not trying to attack anyone or flame. Quite the opposite in fact, these guys are incredible. I wonder whether there are some characteristics of a tube amp "in the room" sound that may be future AxeFX enhancements, or whether they're purely power-amp properties. For example, things we generally describe in unhelpful non-technical terms like "punch" and "air".

 

[srooijens]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

people have been trying to develop SS tube-sounding power amps for 50 years and no-one's done it yet.

But we (in theory) aren't looking for a "tube-sounding" power amp as the Axe-Fx already provides that, we only need linear amplification.

Opinions differ on every level wether or not tube amps or solid state amps are better when it comes to ultimate quality .
Even in very high-end audio people don't agree on what is best, tube or SS. Both have their own advantages and disadvantages. Both are capable of very high quality.
Both can be low quality too when not properly designed and/or built.

With Atomic's previous experience with tube amp design it is not hard to believe they could make a great sounding tube amp relatively easily. If they'd had no previous experience with tubes but years of building high quality solid state amps that situation might have been reversed.

S.R.

 

[GM Arts]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

people have been trying to develop SS tube-sounding power amps for 50 years and no-one's done it yet.

But we (in theory) aren't looking for a "tube-sounding" power amp as the Axe-Fx already provides that, we only need linear amplification.

Opinions differ on every level wether or not tube amps or solid state amps are better when it comes to ultimate quality .
Even in very high-end audio people don't agree on what is best, tube or SS. Both have their own advantages and disadvantages. Both are capable of very high quality.
Both can be low quality too when not properly designed and/or built.

With Atomic's previous experience with tube amp design it is not hard to believe they could make a great sounding tube amp relatively easily. If they'd had no previous experience with tubes but years of building high quality solid state amps that situation might have been reversed.

S.R.

Yeah, I generally agree with that. I have some doubts about whether they could develop an equal or better alternative, we'll never know, all we know for sure is they preferred tubes over other solutions they tried. I'm not interested in a SS vs tube debate either, but given that most guitarists prefer tube amps, and that we know Tom did as well ...

My question is just an honest curiosity about potential for the AxeFX. I wonder whether there are some characteristics of a tube amp and that "in the room" sound that may be future AxeFX enhancements, or whether they're purely power-amp properties. For example, things we generally describe in unhelpful non-technical terms like "punch" and "air". I really don't know how quantifiable these things are.

 

[quonsar]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

Yes, but say I buy two of them to my Line6 POD or VOX ToneLab with appropriate docks.

Honch, I believe you are confusing the existing Atomic product depicted on the web site with the forthcoming Fratomic FRFR solution, which is a different beast.

 

[electronpirate]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

Would it be considered obsessive to have my email filtered for 'Fractal Audio', forwarded to my cel phone?

Since I'm expecting (hoping) that one to show up tonight or tomorrow...

 

[<MACHINE>]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

Hang in there guys, production is now officially in progress! I will provide a more detailed update with timeline by the end of the weekend.

-TK

As of this minute if you live in Hawaii...Tom still has time to pull it off

 

[OverAmp]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

Hang in there guys, production is now officially in progress! I will provide a more detailed update with timeline by the end of the weekend.

-TK

:?: :?:

 

[electronpirate]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

I guess he didn't say WHICH weekend!

 

[hp/mp]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

 

[Honch]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

Yes, but say I buy two of them to my Line6 POD or VOX ToneLab with appropriate docks.

Honch, I believe you are confusing the existing Atomic product depicted on the web site with the forthcoming Fratomic FRFR solution, which is a different beast.

Yes, I thought so too. But any day now I will know if it's what I am after or not. Any word yet? I have to resort to the G66 site in Europe though, were it will take some additional time to arrive (if it's something I would be interested in, in the first place).

 

[lilbman]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

Still hangin' in there. It's been tough though.
I'm sure our patience will be rewarded.
:shock: :? :lol: :x
:evil: :twisted: :roll: :!:
:?: :idea: :arrow: :| :geek: :ugeek:

 

[mortega76]

Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

I bet he's waiting because his next announcement will be that they are ready to be shipped.