XLR to TS instead of humbuster?

M

mwm711

New Member
New to fractal and am amazed by the unit. Exploring different set up scenarios and have a question:

Is there any disadvantage to using xlr outs 1-2 to 1/4 inch TS when interfacing with instrument level outboard pieces instead outs 3-4 1/4 inch TRS to TS, i.e., humbuster cables?
 
To be clear, TRS -> TS is not a Humbuster... Those are the types of connectors but that isn't the typical wiring in a Humbuster.

I believe that XLR -> TS should get the same quieter result as it's a balanced connection.

Also, you may very well have no need for either XLR or Humbuster depending on your use case.

You can simply try TS -> TS and see how it works.

I used my Axe Fx II and III with a power amp that way for years and had no noise issues.

Also, FM3 only has Outputs 1 and 2...
 
You can run Output 1:TRS>TS, or output 2: TS>TS. Neither will be balanced. If an XLR cable is connected to something with a TS jack it will revert to unbalanced. This is fine for short cable runs below 6m in benign environments. If you have long cables or you're on a stage with lots of other cables running everywhere use humbuster cables (available form Fractal or other suppliers) on output 2. The best solution if you can is to run XLR>XLR, or XLR>TRS. Don't put a TRS cable into output 2 it's not wired for that.
 
mwm711 said:
Is there any disadvantage to using xlr outs 1-2 to 1/4 inch TS when interfacing with instrument level outboard pieces instead outs 3-4 1/4 inch TRS to TS, i.e., humbuster cables?
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the FM3 has 2 outputs

Out 1 Left and Right
Out 2 Left and right

if you mean Out 1 Left and Right XLR to 1/4" TS cable, it should be fine.
 
unix-guy said:
I believe that XLR -> TS should get the same quieter result as it's a balanced connection.
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XLR to TS is not balanced. Balanced I/O requires two signal conductors for two out of phase copies of the signal. The outputs and inputs of the respective devices have to BOTH be balanced as well. The balanced output splits the signal into two out of phase copies and the balanced input flips the phase of the out of phase copy and recombines them. The end result is the original signal is reinforced and any interference picked up by the cable along the way is cancelled out much like how a humbucking pickup cancels out EMI compared to a single coil pickup. XLR to TS passes only the in-phase copy of the signal, so it is unbalanced.
 
mr_fender said:
XLR to TS is not balanced. Balanced I/O requires two signal conductors for two out of phase copies of the signal. The outputs and inputs of the respective devices have to BOTH be balanced as well. The balanced output splits the signal into two out of phase copies and the balanced input flips the phase of the out of phase copy and recombines them. The end result is the original signal is reinforced and any interference picked up by the cable along the way is cancelled out much like how a humbucking pickup cancels out EMI compared to a single coil pickup. XLR to TS passes only the in-phase copy of the signal, so it is unbalanced.
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That makes sense... Adjusted my post.
 
mwm711 said:
Is there any disadvantage to using xlr outs 1-2 to 1/4 inch TS when interfacing with instrument level outboard pieces instead outs 3-4 1/4 inch TRS to TS, i.e., humbuster cables?
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I'd recommend reading p. 23 in the manual, along with pgs. 36-38, in particular pay attention to which outputs and cables are used.
 
I’ve been wondering about this too. Is it possible to wire XLR>TS to make a humbuster cable. I’m thinking using the same wiring as in the diagram of a humbuster but routing from the TS to the correct terminals of the XLR.
Not electrically minded so don’t know it this might work 😃
 
Madtone said:
I’ve been wondering about this too. Is it possible to wire XLR>TS to make a humbuster cable. I’m thinking using the same wiring as in the diagram of a humbuster but routing from the TS to the correct terminals of the XLR.
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You can’t get there from here.

The internal circuitry determines how the signals are used. See the diagram for the rear-panel, along with the Humbuster cable page, in the manual. Also, Section 4 in the manual is useful for helping to identify which ports are used how.
 
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mr_fender said:
XLR to TS is not balanced. Balanced I/O requires two signal conductors for two out of phase copies of the signal. The outputs and inputs of the respective devices have to BOTH be balanced as well. The balanced output splits the signal into two out of phase copies and the balanced input flips the phase of the out of phase copy and recombines them. The end result is the original signal is reinforced and any interference picked up by the cable along the way is cancelled out much like how a humbucking pickup cancels out EMI compared to a single coil pickup. XLR to TS passes only the in-phase copy of the signal, so it is unbalanced.
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Sorry to be pedantic... you're almost there. What you're describing is a differential signal. Balanced refers to impedance balancing the 2 legs of the cable. Balanced signals can be differential or single-ended.
 
True, but either way you need two signal carrying conductors and it's the input of the receiving device that does the noise rejection. XLR to TS will not provide this since the receiving input is connected to just one signal contact and ground. Fractal XLR outputs are differential and balanced as they yield a +6 dB signal gain at the receiving input do to the dual input signals being recombined.

Humbuster outputs are fundamentally different in that it is the Fractal output circuit that is doing the noise reduction. That's why it still works when connecting to unbalanced inputs like guitar amps and pedals via the specifically wired Humbuster cable.
 
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Forgive me, I’m a bit confused. I suppose my question now is, which is the better connection for noise reduction XLR or Humbuster? Or are they the same.
 
Madtone said:
Forgive me, I’m a bit confused. I suppose my question now is, which is the better connection for noise reduction XLR or Humbuster? Or are they the same.
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Until Fractal release schematics on the Humbuster system, we'll never know. I suspect it'll be the difference between bugger all & sweet f.a. (noise).
 
I had some noise issues with 1/4 to 1/4 cables. I tried XLR to 1/4 - no difference. Finally bought the Humbuster cables and noise is gone. Don't know how this works and don't care. It just works.

XLR to XLR may have worked because the cables stay balanced. Where XLR to 1/4 reverts back to unbalanced.

UPDATE: I found a video explaining how balanced cables work. Nice simple explanation.
 
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