Windows 10 support ends - Are you interested in Linux support by FAS?

Windows 10 support ends - Are you also intersted in Linux support by Fractal Audio?

  • Yes

  • No

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Yes please, I run a Linux computer and I would love to be able to use FM9-Edit without needing to move to a Windows partition...

It runs with Wine but the USB connection is not detected :(
 
unix-guy said:
To be fair, they said that 9 years ago...
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its fair if likely still true imo - they are quite customer responsive - if things had changed materially, they'd be supporting it, or in the process of, and we'd probably have gotten wind of it. Regularly reading post content here (not to mention just having some awareness of what's being used generally) is enough to get a pretty good sense of the breakdown. I'm not anti-Linux either, just realistic, and a "No" voter if it would mean resources move away from core product development for limited indirect benefit (not to mention, wrt the title question, changing OS is not necessarily a typical/advised response to end of support of an older OS version installed)
 
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sprint said:
its fair if likely still true imo - they are quite customer responsive - if things had changed materially, they'd be supporting it, or in the process of, and we'd probably have gotten wind of it. Regularly reading post content here (not to mention just having some awareness of what's being used generally) is enough to get a pretty good sense of the breakdown. I'm not anti-Linux either, just realistic, and a "No" voter if it would mean resources move away from core product development for limited indirect benefit (not to mention, wrt the title question, changing OS is not necessarily a typical/advised response to end of support of an older OS version installed)
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But always following the crowd doesn't always have to be right. And things can't be changed if nothing is changed.
 
TheRedDevil said:
But always following the crowd doesn't always have to be right. And things can't be changed if nothing is changed.
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I (and a large portion of others) am happy with a mainstream OS - that makes it "right" for me. I don't want things to change dramatically wrt my OS - it's like plumbing, if its working, I don't really want to know much more about it beyond basic operation and what to do to maintain / upgrade it when needed to keep it running - my primary focus (don't think I'm a-typical on this) is the apps I use, not the underlying OS that facilitates those apps - the less time I spending futzing with, or deliberating about OS, the better. If someone else likes a not so mainstream OS, great, have at it - maybe I will join in at some point. But if I'm asked as an Axfx user if it's worthwhile for FAS to spend effort supporting an OS that relatively few people use, my answer is def no, I prefer to see that effort go toward new Axfx product features or capabilities I can directly use. Imo, most people don't want to spend effort on alternative plumbing if it does not offer a materially better way for them to brush their teeth or take a dump.
 
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sprint said:
I (and a large portion of others) am happy with a mainstream OS - that makes it "right" for me. I don't want things to change dramatically wrt my OS - it's like plumbing, if its working, I don't really want to know much more about it beyond basic operation and what to do to maintain / upgrade it when needed to keep it running - my primary focus (don't think I'm a-typical on this) is the apps I use, not the underlying OS that facilitates those apps - the less time I spending futzing with, or deliberating about OS, the better. If someone else likes a not so mainstream OS, great, have at it - maybe I will join in at some point. But if I'm asked as an Axfx user if it's worthwhile for FAS to spend effort supporting an OS that relatively few people use, my answer is def no, I prefer to see that effort go toward new Axfx product features or capabilities I can directly use. Imo, most people don't want to spend effort on alternative plumbing if it does not offer a materially better way for them to brush their teeth or take a dump.
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Unfortunately I have to disagree with you. I run 8 computer/server in our family at home, all with Ubuntu/Debian, and I have almost no effort with it. With Windows it's exactly the opposite. Something constantly needs to be fixed or new computers need to be installed or reinstalled. Reinstall a computer with Windows and all the applications the user wants. They are busy there for hours. With Ubuntu it's much, much faster and then it works. Even a craftsman never stops learning and should not rest on his previous training ;o) Once my colleague said: "Also my (non-IT) wife can install Ubuntu".
Years ago I was a die-hard Windows freak. Just give Ubuntu a chance!
 
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sprint said:
I (and a large portion of others) am happy with a mainstream OS - that makes it "right" for me. I don't want things to change dramatically wrt my OS - it's like plumbing, if its working, I don't really want to know much more about it beyond basic operation and what to do to maintain / upgrade it when needed to keep it running - my primary focus (don't think I'm a-typical on this) is the apps I use, not the underlying OS that facilitates those apps - the less time I spending futzing with, or deliberating about OS, the better. If someone else likes a not so mainstream OS, great, have at it - maybe I will join in at some point. But if I'm asked as an Axfx user if it's worthwhile for FAS to spend effort supporting an OS that relatively few people use, my answer is def no, I prefer to see that effort go toward new Axfx product features or capabilities I can directly use. Imo, most people don't want to spend effort on alternative plumbing if it does not offer a materially better way for them to brush their teeth or take a dump.
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I am new to the forum, but I find it surreal that you would vote "no" on a Linux support just because you are worried FAS would spend too much effort on it.

It wouldn't take a month, and it would just broaden the user base. Linux is becoming more and more mainstream, you want it or not.
 
TheRedDevil said:
Unfortunately I have to disagree with you. I run 8 computer/server in our family at home, all with Ubuntu/Debian, and I have almost no effort with it. With Windows it's exactly the opposite. Something constantly needs to be fixed or new computers need to be installed or reinstalled. Reinstall a computer with Windows and all the applications the user wants. They are busy there for hours. With Ubuntu it's much, much faster and then it works. Even a craftsman never stops learning and should not rest on his previous training ;o) Once my colleague said: "Also my (non-IT) wife can install Ubuntu".
Years ago I was a die-hard Windows freak. Just give Ubuntu a chance!
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Disagree away!, no worries - different strokes for different folks. I get it being of similar tech mindset / pro background - just not something I personally see a lot of benefit to spending my time on adopting for my devices right now. Again, not critisizing Linux, others' decision to use it, or trying to compare it to other OS, but not at all convinced that adding Linux support is typically insignificant effort (particularly for smaller orgs like FAS for Ax3Edit, FM9Edit, FM3Edit, CL4, Fractalbot ...), or that Linux has now reached a level of user base numbers where it's now become worthwhile for app makers like FAS to support (if/when Linux starts hitting those numbers, then ya, it then becomes important for them to develop support for in order to maintain their products' market share)
 
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@TheRedDevil skimming through your posts it seems you're using an old intel iGPU, which probably does not support vulcan. That would explain why installing dxvk does not help. Use the vulkaninfo cli command (probably need to install it first) to check if your system is vulcan compatible, if it isn't you either need a new GPU or need to find a workaround which does not depend on vulkan. I've added a TLDR to my post you linked in the OP which describes this. Downgrading to Axe-Edit 1.13.03 would also be an option as that is the last version known to me which does not have the rendering issue, but of course you would lose all new functionality and amp/pedal layouts introduced since then.

Regarding Linux support in general, while it would be great to have some sort of official support for the platform, I can understand if this is not realistically possible for a small company like FAS. Personally I'm fine with the current status because Axe-Edit works flawlessly for me in wine now due to the dxvk workaround - with the minor nitpick that it cannot be auto-updated and I have to install new releases manually, but that's fine as downloading and running the latest Axe-Edit installer takes less time than clicking through the installer dialogs.

Someone mentioned open-sourcing the editor which would be great, not just because it would solve the linux support issue but also because I'm sure the community would come up with lots of cool stuff. It wouldn't need to be the whole editor either, just the APIs for communicating with the HW, the community can build the rest. If FAS does not want to open-source the code for the transport and communication protocols - I can't imagine there's anything interesting for competitors in there but who knows - simply distributing a library as a binary blob with a documented interface would probably work as well. Of course depending on how the Axe-Edit code is currently organized this could require some up-front work, and would have a bit of an ongoing cost to maintain that library and the documentation, but this could be a more realistic option than open sourcing the whole editor.
From a business pov this might not be risk free as it could increase support requests if people brick their devices or accidentally delete their presets with 3rd party editors etc. But on the other hand FracPad has existed for a while now and does not seem to cause major issues even though it is built on a reverse-engineered and thus more fragile basis, so this might be manageable.
 
l4mpi said:
Someone mentioned open-sourcing the editor which would be great
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If I were a software engineer working for Fractal Audio, I would absolutely dread this idea.

People look at OSS and immediately think it's this panacea of "anybody can do anything! the possibilities are endless!", but man... the maintenance burden for open-source software is no joke. You have to deal with people, and their opinions, and wading through endless filed issues and pull requests and conversations and yada yada yada... and then people get real mad when their perfectly crafted feature that they spent weeks on gets rejected because it would literally appeal to only like, one person.

"The community" is basically never efficient. It's' not some untapped well of limitless productivity, it's a mess of chaos and disorder more often than not. In most cases it's the worst example of rule by committee (which works oh so well for government bodies, doesn't it).

I would not wish OSS maintenance on Fractal, not in the slightest. From what I've experienced in that world, all of Fractal's user base would suffer for it and the release cadence would slow down. No thanks.
 
rossipedia said:
If I were a software engineer working for Fractal Audio, I would absolutely dread this idea.

People look at OSS and immediately think it's this panacea of "anybody can do anything! the possibilities are endless!", but man... the maintenance burden for open-source software is no joke. You have to deal with people, and their opinions, and wading through endless filed issues and pull requests and conversations and yada yada yada... and then people get real mad when their perfectly crafted feature that they spent weeks on gets rejected because it would literally appeal to only like, one person.

"The community" is basically never efficient. It's' not some untapped well of limitless productivity, it's a mess of chaos and disorder more often than not. In most cases it's the worst example of rule by committee (which works oh so well for government bodies, doesn't it).

I would not wish OSS maintenance on Fractal, not in the slightest. From what I've experienced in that world, all of Fractal's user base would suffer for it and the release cadence would slow down. No thanks.
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^^^ Hate to say it, but this.
 
rossipedia said:
If I were a software engineer working for Fractal Audio, I would absolutely dread this idea.

People look at OSS and immediately think it's this panacea of "anybody can do anything! the possibilities are endless!", but man... the maintenance burden for open-source software is no joke. You have to deal with people, and their opinions, and wading through endless filed issues and pull requests and conversations and yada yada yada... and then people get real mad when their perfectly crafted feature that they spent weeks on gets rejected because it would literally appeal to only like, one person.

"The community" is basically never efficient. It's' not some untapped well of limitless productivity, it's a mess of chaos and disorder more often than not. In most cases it's the worst example of rule by committee (which works oh so fast for government bodies, doesn't it).

I would not wish OSS maintenance on Fractal, not in the slightest. From what I've experienced in that world, all of Fractal's user base would suffer for it and the release cadence would slow down. No thanks.
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... which is one of the reasons why I said a few sentences later that simply distributing an API library as a binary could work as well. That would still be an internal closed source FAS software, and any open or closed source software based on it would be fully in the hands of the community with no burden on FAS. So, while what you've said is not wrong (however IMO also not inevitable depending on how such a project would be set up and managed), it's also not the only option for enabling more community software development.
 
l4mpi said:
@TheRedDevil skimming through your posts it seems you're using an old intel iGPU, which probably does not support vulcan. That would explain why installing dxvk does not help. Use the vulkaninfo cli command (probably need to install it first) to check if your system is vulcan compatible, if it isn't you either need a new GPU or need to find a workaround which does not depend on vulkan. I've added a TLDR to my post you linked in the OP which describes this. Downgrading to Axe-Edit 1.13.03 would also be an option as that is the last version known to me which does not have the rendering issue, but of course you would lose all new functionality and amp/pedal layouts introduced since then.
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Thank you!

This one seems to be supported by Vulkan
Intel® Core™ i5-7500T × 4
Mesa Intel® HD Graphics 630 (KBL GT2)
but it did not work with FM3-Edit.

This one
Intel® Celeron® Prozessor J1900
Intel® HD Graphics for Intel Atom® Processor Z3700 Series
seems not to be supported, because I get this hint:
"WARNING: [Loader Message] Code 0 : terminator_CreateInstance: Received return code -3 from call to vkCreateInstance in ICD /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libvulkan_virtio.so. Skipping this driver.
MESA-INTEL: warning: Bay Trail Vulkan support is incomplete"
On this machine I tested Axe-EditIII.

I could try to test Axe-EditIII with the first machine later too.
 
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TheRedDevil said:
This one seems to be supportet by Vulkan
Intel® Core™ i5-7500T × 4
Mesa Intel® HD Graphics 630 (KBL GT2)
and it did not work with FM3-Edit.
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Hmm if FM3-Edit does not work I would expect that it will be the same for Axe-Edit, but it can't hurt to try it on that system as well to see if it makes a difference.
My FM3 is currently on loan to a friend who also runs Arch but with a very different setup than my machine and on his system FM3-Edit failed due to connectivity problems with the HW. That's probably unrelated to your case though...
 
TheRedDevil said:
Thank you!

This one seems to be supported by Vulkan
Intel® Core™ i5-7500T × 4
Mesa Intel® HD Graphics 630 (KBL GT2)
but it did not work with FM3-Edit.

This one
Intel® Celeron® Prozessor J1900
Intel® HD Graphics for Intel Atom® Processor Z3700 Series
seems not to be supported, because I get this hint:
"WARNING: [Loader Message] Code 0 : terminator_CreateInstance: Received return code -3 from call to vkCreateInstance in ICD /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libvulkan_virtio.so. Skipping this driver.
MESA-INTEL: warning: Bay Trail Vulkan support is incomplete"
On this machine I tested Axe-EditIII.

I could try to test Axe-EditIII with the first machine later too.
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Damn, just read the f* manual 🥳, it really works with AXEEditIII, Vulkan support and DXVK/VKD3D with Bottles/Gaming, Debian 12 and Gnome. I also could start FractalBot.

But FM3-Edit doesn't work .... ahhh ... no connection, empty preset, no reaction on scene select, but I need both tools. Just a half-win, but better than nothing :)
Thanks a lot. Any more ideas for FM3-Edit? Possibly really a connection issue? But it is available as Audio Interface.
 
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