Bug? Will the recording latency ever get fixed?

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Anamein

Anamein

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Hello!

As the title says, I am wondering when or if the recording latency issue will get fixed for the FM3.

For those unaware this is an issue that plagued every Fractal device from this generation but was reportedly fixed for the FM9 and Axe-Fx III with a USB drivers update, the FM3 was the only device where it was never addressed at all.

To quote @GlennO :
The Axe-FX III has a bug related to latency compensation. Basically, this means that, unless you set a preference in your DAW, your recorded AxeFX tracks will lag behind the tracks you are listening to while you record.
Click to expand...

The current workaround is measuring with a loopback the sample offset and use your DAW settings to compensate for it. The issue is that it isn't necessarily a precise measurement and the latency can be wildly inconsistent.

While I understand that this isn't considered a"showstopper" - as per the words of @Admin M@ - I personally planned on using the device as a convenient all-in-one to record guitar tracks and I don't think just telling the owners of such expensive pieces of equipment to "just buy an audio interface" is a valid answer.
Stating the obvious here but the main product page advertises the device as having "Impressive USB Audio Capabilities" so...

Other manufacturers using the same converters with way less powerful devices don't seem to run into this issue.
Also from looking at the spec-sheets, there is no reason why this could be fixed on the FM9 and not on the FM3 as they most likely have the exact same digital converters.

Also pinging @FractalAudio just in case.
 
I could really, really do with this issue being fixed. It becomes pretty maddening especially when you regularly switch between the FM3 and other interfaces, which necessitates setting up the sample offset and undoing it every time you change device (in Ableton anyway).
 
I've also come across issues configuring compensation delay tools with consistent results.

For years, my go-to workflow has been to route my pre-click through the FM3 so I can easily realign things afterwards.

Even in situations where latency compensation between devices is automatically compensated, I'll still commit to including my pre-click as a simple and effective second opinion.

Trust no one! Lol
 
Anamein said:
According to the thread the issue seems to persist even on the Axe FX III which is surprising. :confused:
Click to expand...

No, that's not true. With outboard gear, especially like a guitar processor that has variable latency, you can't expect it to be sample accurate, but the original problem where there was an extreme lag due to the latency being reported incorrectly has been fixed on the FM9 and Axe-FX III. Sorry, I don't have any information about the status of a fix on the FM3. For anybody unfamiliar with the workaround, here are the instructions:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/latency-compensation-measurement.177851/
 
GlennO said:
No, that's not true. With outboard gear, especially like a guitar processor that has variable latency, you can't expect it to be sample accurate, but the original problem where there was an extreme lag due to the latency being reported incorrectly has been fixed on the FM9 and Axe-FX III.
Click to expand...
I mean the OP of that thread clearly states he has that exact issue though granted it might be user error or something else entirely... o_O
 
Anamein said:
I mean the OP of that thread clearly states he has that exact issue though granted it might be user error or something else entirely... o_O
Click to expand...

No, it's not the "exact issue" at all. It sounds like he's observing (relatively small) misalignment on the Axe-FX III and mistakenly thinking that's, as he calls it, "lack of latency reporting to the daw". That's simply not true: Latency is reported to the DAW.

Before the fix, the latency was reported incorrectly, leading to extremely large misalignment. IIRC it was around 20 milliseconds. The latency is now reported correctly, but as I mentioned above, that shouldn't be taken to mean you should expect sample accurate alignment. It simply means the misalignment is quite small now...typically somewhere around a millisecond.

For anybody who cares about the background details on this problem, you can find it here:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...rding-due-to-usb-latency-compensation.181686/
 
I always have issues with my FM3 where it will freeze up my computer for like 30 or 40 seconds before it will respond. This usually happens if a background sound tries to play on Windows, or when the box pops up to ask me if I want to save a file, or similar things. It is the FM3 because if I pull the USB cable out, the computer immediately goes back to normal.
 
GlennO said:
Before the fix, the latency was reported incorrectly, leading to extremely large misalignment. IIRC it was around 20 milliseconds. The latency is now reported correctly, but as I mentioned above, that shouldn't be taken to mean you should expect sample accurate alignment. It simply means the misalignment is quite small now...typically somewhere around a millisecond.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link and explanation, very informative.

I can say for sure that my FM3 had around ~12ms latency last time I measured it.
 
Anamein said:
Thanks for the link and explanation, very informative.

I can say for sure that my FM3 had around ~12ms latency last time I measured it.
Click to expand...
The latency I measured was also 12ms - I'm not sure if it changes depending on the preset content.
 
Anamein said:
Hello!

As the title says, I am wondering when or if the recording latency issue will get fixed for the FM3.

For those unaware this is an issue that plagued every Fractal device from this generation but was reportedly fixed for the FM9 and Axe-Fx III with a USB drivers update, the FM3 was the only device where it was never addressed at all.

To quote @GlennO :


The current workaround is measuring with a loopback the sample offset and use your DAW settings to compensate for it. The issue is that it isn't necessarily a precise measurement and the latency can be wildly inconsistent.

While I understand that this isn't considered a"showstopper" - as per the words of @Admin M@ - I personally planned on using the device as a convenient all-in-one to record guitar tracks and I don't think just telling the owners of such expensive pieces of equipment to "just buy an audio interface" is a valid answer.
Stating the obvious here but the main product page advertises the device as having "Impressive USB Audio Capabilities" so...

Other manufacturers using the same converters with way less powerful devices don't seem to run into this issue.
Also from looking at the spec-sheets, there is no reason why this could be fixed on the FM9 and not on the FM3 as they most likely have the exact same digital converters.

Also pinging @FractalAudio just in case.
Click to expand...
We had a similar thread few months ago.
Basically the response is "take as it is" because the majority of the users don't use the FM3 for recordings so it's a non priority for fractal.
They know the issue is there, maybe one day it will be fixed.
 
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Riccardo Ros said:
We had a similar thread few months ago.
Basically the response is "take as it is" because the majority of the users don't use the FM3 for recordings so it's a non priority for fractal.
They know the issue is there, maybe one day it will be fixed.
Click to expand...

That's a shame. I use it only for recording and the latency is indeed a bit of a hassle.
The first times it even got me thinking I'd better throw away my guitars, since I cannot play in the pocket :)
 
I just accepted (a long while ago) that if the issue for fm3 specifically would be fixed, it would be probably take a while, if it ever happens. I then got an interface with more inputs to accommodate what I wanted to do. Recording the fm3 through usb (with no daw adjustments) previously.. for a while I thought my timing had just somehow gotten even worse :p
 
flageolet said:
That's a shame. I use it only for recording and the latency is indeed a bit of a hassle.
The first times it even got me thinking I'd better throw away my guitars, since I cannot play in the pocket :)
Click to expand...

Dimi Guitar said:
I just accepted (a long while ago) that if the issue for fm3 specifically would be fixed, it would be probably take a while, if it ever happens. I then got an interface with more inputs to accommodate what I wanted to do. Recording the fm3 through usb (with no daw adjustments) previously.. for a while I thought my timing had just somehow gotten even worse :p
Click to expand...
Same here guys.
I was worried, than I discovered, then I bought a spdif device and... Case closed.

I still think that this is a shame, given the incredible quality of the device...
 
There's no reason the FM9 could have the fix and not the FM3, this much is certain. FM3 dev team might be understaffed or migrated elsewhere, no idea.
It kinda feels like not much effort is being put out for the FM3 in that regard which is a shame.

I wouldn't mind the issue so much if the Fractal's recording quality wasn't so good and matching audio interfaces weren't so expensive, but as far as only recording guitars go it's kind of a pointless investment (if the latency wasn't an issue of course).
 
Anamein said:
There's no reason the FM9 could have the fix and not the FM3, this much is certain. FM3 dev team might be understaffed or migrated elsewhere, no idea.
It kinda feels like not much effort is being put out for the FM3 in that regard which is a shame.

I wouldn't mind the issue so much if the Fractal's recording quality wasn't so good and matching audio interfaces weren't so expensive, but as far as only recording guitars go it's kind of a pointless investment (if the latency wasn't an issue of course).
Click to expand...
FM3 sits on my desk, a bit like pod xt used to. In that regard, having the usb interface work like on the III -- in turns of the latency reporting -- would be useful for me, especially considering limited desk space.
 
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