Who's the best guitar player of all time to you and why?

There is no best, but I'll throw a couple of guys out there that don't get mentioned enough: Michael Lee Firkins and Jeff Kollman
 
Joe Satriani is the one player that had the biggest influence on me. Impossible to say who is the best player though :)
 
Damn! I only know a couple of these guys! I'd better get listening!

I think everyone on that list is extremely talented and musically gifted without being flashy. Some of them never solo at all. Those that do actually add to the song and build on the emotion instead of going "HEY. LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT HOW MANY NOTES I CAN SQUEEZE IN RIGHT HERE! *WANK WANK WANK WANK WANK*" :lol
 
Ah see? Now that's it. Until he learned too much!! I wouldn't know Dave Davies style if he hit me over the head with it, even though I liked the Kinks and even saw them live in 1965! But how can you LEARN too much? Now I'll give you this: learning the guitar, scales, how to use modes and arpeggios and playing over changes is a PROCESS of learning. Most people get stuck in the process or don't get to the finish line, or you don't hear hem at the finish line, or further along in their process. If a person is playing and it sounds like scales either your hearing could use more expansion or the player hasn't learned them well enough If it sounds mechanical, then it is and he's playing mechanically because they haven't found a home in him yet. Maybe with Davies, his sheer, raw exuberance was done. He was every young then, where sheer, raw exuberance lives.

I can play very fast myself. But I don't really listen to a lot of those shredders. It's not my style. And after a while, who's pushing the boundaries any more in the shred style? It's all about the music. If it don't move you, it don't. But Shawn Lane was never really one of those shredders. He had so much more going for him.
 
Ah see? Now that's it. Until he learned too much!! I wouldn't know Dave Davies style if he hit me over the head with it, even though I liked the Kinks and even saw them live in 1965! But how can you LEARN too much? Now I'll give you this: learning the guitar, scales, how to use modes and arpeggios and playing over changes is a PROCESS of learning. Most people get stuck in the process or don't get to the finish line, or you don't hear hem at the finish line, or further along in their process. If a person is playing and it sounds like scales either your hearing could use more expansion or the player hasn't learned them well enough If it sounds mechanical, then it is and he's playing mechanically because they haven't found a home in him yet. Maybe with Davies, his sheer, raw exuberance was done. He was every young then, where sheer, raw exuberance lives.

I can play very fast myself. But I don't really listen to a lot of those shredders. It's not my style. And after a while, who's pushing the boundaries any more in the shred style? It's all about the music. If it don't move you, it don't. But Shawn Lane was never really one of those shredders. He had so much more going for him.

Yeah. I have to be conscious of my own personal bias. I suck at soloing. I mean, I SUCK at it. I've never had a strong desire to learn either, as most solos just bore me.
 
Ah see? Now that's it. Until he learned too much!! I wouldn't know Dave Davies style if he hit me over the head with it, even though I liked the Kinks and even saw them live in 1965! But how can you LEARN too much? Now I'll give you this: learning the guitar, scales, how to use modes and arpeggios and playing over changes is a PROCESS of learning. Most people get stuck in the process or don't get to the finish line, or you don't hear hem at the finish line, or further along in their process. If a person is playing and it sounds like scales either your hearing could use more expansion or the player hasn't learned them well enough If it sounds mechanical, then it is and he's playing mechanically because they haven't found a home in him yet. Maybe with Davies, his sheer, raw exuberance was done. He was every young then, where sheer, raw exuberance lives.

I can play very fast myself. But I don't really listen to a lot of those shredders. It's not my style. And after a while, who's pushing the boundaries any more in the shred style? It's all about the music. If it don't move you, it don't. But Shawn Lane was never really one of those shredders. He had so much more going for him.

Part of me agrees with you: how can you learn too damn much? Absurd. But I dunno: everyone might have their time, and way of 'peaking'. Maybe for some, they peak as cavemen clawing at strings and it does something special. I agree about getting caught in the 'process' - I'm a victim of that in some ways. I can play reasonably fast, and it's fun too. And I like soloing, which I sometimes do reasonably well, and sometimes suck at.

But back to 'learning too much' - learning is about focusing, being selective, because one can't learn everything. Therefore, like a bonzai, it is a form of disciplined distortion (think of a ballet dancer's body - a beautiful distortion wrought through endless learning (through drilling) of technique). As a form of distortion, it opens some doors, closes others. She will prbably never be a good discus thrower, for example. If I rigorously learn a particular musical system to the point that its rules (which connote a viewpoint) are wired into my system, then even if I choose to break those rules, i do so as a reaction to them, or in relationship to them. I.e knowing them intimately alters my ability to create in ways that can be positive and negative. So, yes, learning 'too much' is possible in that you become distorted. Maybe 'too much' is the wrong turn of phrase, but you have fashioned yourself in a certain way, and it'll preclude you coming up with certain things. And... you REALLY don't know the guitar solo to 'You Really Got me', dude? Damn, it rox!

At any rate, I have enormous respect for you and for your music. We'll just have to agree to disagree. It's actually quite ironic: I am a self-taught, highly idiosyncratic, musically illiterate musician who is in the process, at this late age of trying to become more literate, even though most of what I write (especially my piano music) is apparently not in Western key signatures, and due to a lot of it being quite legato, and improvised, is not in a fixed time signature either. But I do have some technique, particularly on guitar. I practiced scales and such for years, albeit in an incredibly self-limiting way. But now I am seeing those limitations for what they are: limitations, a form of distortion I've impossed on myself, with my antipathy to western notation, and so I am trying to become more educated. it will be interesting to see the new growth, but other doors will close, though perhaps not as firmly since I am learning so much at a later age; 'As the twig is bent, so grows the tree'.
 
I look at it differently. If I KNOW the rules, there are no rules. I never think of rules like what you can or can't do. It's just what to do that makes it sound like. IOW if i want to sound like something, or nt sound like something, i kow whatbto do to make me sound like that or not. There's no BREAKING rules.

I'm not following you on the distortion thing. I dont think it's possible to learn too much. It's all in what you do with what you learn and how you use it. It's only when you don't learn ENOUGH. When you partially learn and are incomplete in your knowledge it can rule YOU. When you know something, you know it and cant fall prey to it. You ARE it. Then you can create anything.

Knowing music and technique is the single most misunderstood thing To most guitar players. IMHO.
 
Well, I guess the ballerina's body didn't work for ya, huh? We'll just have todisagree, because, based on what I know of neuroplasticity,and berklee graduates, and Dave Davies, I guess we'll never see eye to eye. Some of the most 'ignorant' people in the world who know no rules or systems have made great art.

Via con dios.
 
Well, I guess the ballerina's body didn't work for ya, huh? We'll just have todisagree, because, based on what I know of neuroplasticity,and berklee graduates, and Dave Davies, I guess we'll never see eye to eye. Some of the most 'ignorant' people in the world who know no rules or systems have made great art.

Via con dios.
Yeah, but we're not talking ballet. I have never stopped learning and I've gotten better and better and better. You can find exceptions everywhere. What works best for me is personal experience. The body doesn't have to degenerate for a guitarist. Neither does the mind. Of course many uneducated artists have made great art. Of course. But the artists I like the most, are those that know the structure of music. I'm not talking about school by the way. I never mentioned school. I never graduated with a degree in music. I think colleges can kill creativity faster than anything. Wes, Holdsworth, Legrene didn't know how to read and in many cases did even know what to call chords. BUT THEY KNEW MUSIC.

I'm not talking studying the agreed upon Berklee classes or the like. I'm talking about studying music.
 
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Yeah, but we're not talking ballet. I have never stopped learning and I've gotten better and better and better. You can find exceptions everywhere. What works best for me is personal experience. The body doesn't have to degenerate for a guitarist. Neither does the mind. Of course many uneducated artists have made great art. Of course. But the artists I like the most, are those that know the structure of music. I'm not talking about school by the way. I never mentioned school. I never graduated with a degree in music. I think colleges can kill creativity faster than anything. Wes, Holdsworth, Legrene didn't know how to read and in many cases did even know what to call chords. BUT THEY KNEW MUSIC.

I'm not talking studying the agreed upon Berklee classes or the like. I'm talking about studying music.
Well then we agree a lot - though a lot of my music in somewhat 'unstructured' free-improv. But, yes, I agree with you. Fancy that!
 
Well then we agree a lot - though a lot of my music in somewhat 'unstructured' free-improv. But, yes, I agree with you. Fancy that!
An AWFUL lot, if not most of my music is unstructured free improv -- not necessarily free jazz. But a lot of very structured. I'm almost all improv. I couldn't work a solo out if you put a gun to my head. And worse is playing someone else's solo note for note. I'll take the guillotine now please.

BTW I had a feeling we agreed. That's why I kept at it. I had to just find the points of confusion.
 
By the wahy, the analogy about the ballerina's body was not meant to speak to a guitarist's body, but rather to the mind - all minds are shaped by drilling them with repetitive tasks like scales, and also by concepts (i.e. how many musicians are utterly trapped by the concept of what's in 'key'?). Knowledge is power, but I still maintain that it is also a stricture in that if creates orientation, and therefore closes off other doors. Why does the music of so many modern classical composers all sound itchy, twitchy, nervous and neurotic, for example? 'cause they all locked themselves in the same boxes of atonality, 12 tone etc. Some of them would have doubtless done better if they'd just explored, without dogma doggin' them down...
 
That's true only if you allow it to. That's less a function on the subject of learning than the creative impetus of the individual and how willing or unwilling he is to be led, fed and dictated to by rules. As I said, I don't think there ARE rules that keep you FROM doing anything in the world. It never did to me. I think this is a confusion a lot of people run into about theory and other things..
 
An AWFUL lot, if not most of my music is unstructured free improv -- not necessarily free jazz. But a lot of very structured. I'm almost all improv. I couldn't work a solo out if you put a gun to my head. And worse is playing someone else's solo note for note. I'll take the guillotine now please.

BTW I had a feeling we agreed. That's why I kept at it. I had to just find the points of confusion.

Jeez, we really do agree! I couldn't work out a solo either - it's always made me feel kinda dumb. But I can make up my own! Still gotta send you that CD. I will. I promise.
 
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