What is your philosophy when updating?

[shredi knight]

Just curious, do you go into an update excited, expecting things to be better or are you full of dread expecting the most minute of tweaks in the update to wreck your patches/tones?

I generally go into an update with excitement, but that can quickly turn to dread if I read in the release notes that there have been changes made to the amp modeling. It's then cross fingers/hope for the best and see if my tones have either:


- Pretty much stayed the same.

- Improved.

- Turned into a poor man's version of what they used to be.


I've experienced all 3. If it's the third, I do my best at re-tweaking to get my tones back to where I feel they are just as good or better than they were before the update (I liken this to a finished sculpture that's had a new layer of clay applied to it, that must be chipped away at until a new, and hopefully improved version of that sculpture is revealed). Sometimes I can't seem to get my tones back to where I'm happy with them and the re-tweaking ends in failure and frustration. I'll give up and roll back to the previous firmware for a few days until I feel like trying again.

This process can take several attempts until I'm satisfied, though there's been a couple of times when I just couldn't make a particular FW work for me, so I just stayed with the previous version until there was another major update that changed the amp modeling again that was more to my liking. FW 17.xx was like this for me (meaning It didn't work for me), but then 18.xx came out and all was not just good again, but honestly better than ever.

 

[jlynnb1]

I just can't get over how when an update comes out, incremental or otherwise, 200 posts rave about "how much better it sounds" and those replies are 100% accepted without question, but as soon as a SINGLE USER says it sounds worse, WHAM... out comes the insults questioning the posters integrity, the "don't update then," the "it's all in your head because nothing major changed," the "it's your own fault for needlessly deep tweaking."

I want updates that add new features and fix bugs just like everyone else. I don't want that it negates all the time I've put in previously, and then when one comes to the forums looking for help or to see what others experiences are, have to be ridiculed by a community of minimalists that bought the most tweak-able box in the history of processing, yet insist that there is no need for deep tweaking because it "sounds good to me with simply B/M/T to taste and Jam" .... then further make comments like "I can't hear a change in 90% of the parameters anyways" :roll

I didn't buy the Axe FX II so I could twist B/M/T to taste and jam...... That's great that this is all you aspire to use it for, but I do not.

I actually record every rehearsal I do directly to a digital recorder for review purposes. This means I have actual physical sound samples of my presets prior to updating. So with having an actual physical reference, I have yet to experience an update that did not change my tone, incremental or otherwise. Then Cliff posts this isn't possible since nothing changed..... WTF man, so what am I supposed to do now? It isn't in my head. the rest of my gear didn't change.... the only thing that changed is I updated the Axe FX II firmware, and it does not sound the same.... And sorry folks, after being attacked and bashed in the past, I'm not interested in the drama or insuing forum flogging by the community so I just leave it be and stopped updating, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here that has had this experience. :nightmare:

My Philosophy when updating is that I am not going to bother anymore until the final firmware unless Cliff adds many of the things in the wish section.

I'm happy for those of you that are happy with basic and/or default tones and effects. I am not one of those.

See, I agree with you as well. Although I've never had a bad experience or had to do hardly any, if any at all, retweaking...I've also never been like "ermahgerd it's amazeballs and totally different from anything I've ever heard before". It's incremental, it gets sweeter, it definitely gets better....but not to the extent that some react like it does.

The Axe sounded and felt pretty amazing 8 fw's ago...is it better now? absolutely. But if it was amazing then, what would be the word to describe it now? Especially to those who go out of their minds at every update?

What's awesome is when nothing that would affect a certain amp is changed and people flip out about it, one way or the other. NOTHING CHANGED...but they've convinced themselves it did. It's hilarious...

 

[ChrisCG]

I don't think I ever update and think man this is going to be the best firmware of all time.i think I have pretty level expectations of a update. I will say that 18 really was a nice surprise. You could hear a difference in the recordings people would post but until I played it I just wasn't ready for how good the amps felt.

I will say that depending on the update or what's in it I might not update right away. I'm two or three back right now I think. Only because there hasn't been anything in these last couple small ones that made me say I need to do it right now.

 

[NMG]

I have a read of the bug fix section to see if anything will improve my unit in the way I use it, then have a glance at some new features ignoring all the amps that are added. Then if it all looks necessary then I will sit and watch the reaction on the forum. Only if all that impresses me I check the calendar to see when the next gig is and, considering the supports EPROM turnaround- I may choose to update, but only on a full moon.

 

[Cagey]

So they're TGPers?

Hehe! Good call. Not to disparage that demographic at all, because it's useful. But, man! Some of those guys! "A fly landed on my [insert $5K boutique amp here], so I had to sell it! Hopefully, the damned thing will die of starvation before it lands on my Dumble! Although, that thing's been pissing me off lately, so..."

 

[haieb]

I do a backup and if I notice that any preset changed, I tweak it the way I like it or even start from scratch. For my basic tones, like rhythm and clean, I try to get a better one and do one preset from scratch with major updates.

 

[keh]

When it comes to me I usually make at least every major update. Not always the first version, but sometimes the public beta already. That depends on my available time (full-time job, family with four little children and just hobby-musician) and if a gig is in the near future. Then I usually don't risk anything, because even with not the latest firmware the sound with an AXE FXII is far away from bad...

 

[Cagey]

I don't do a helluva lotta tweaking to any of the presets. I trust the models to sound like they're supposed to (I've never owned a great many of these models, so what do I know?), so I basically just use the controls you would normally find on the actual amp. Not to discount the value of the deep edits that are available, but I sorta look at things like output transformer impedance/response changes the same way I'd look at it if I were going to change the output transformer in the real amp. That's not a trivial task, so I don't look at the available adjustments as anything less than that, even though it's just a matter of changing a parameter. I may be cheating myself out of some better tonal characteristics here and there as a result, but I also don't have to have a stroke every time the firmware changes.

 

[swervedriver]

In the 2+ years I've had my Axe FX I've had to drastically retweak my patches maybe 4 times, only 2 of which have been firmware related. First time was when I updated from FW9 to 10 (which introduced MIMIC if memory serves me right). Second time was when I changed my Atomic Reactor cab to a CLR wedge (so firmware unrelated). Third time when I went down the custom IR rabbithole and emerged with a handful of go-to IRs (mostly Ownhammers), which have actually greatly reduced the need for tweaking. Last time was with FW 16.03 where the maximum reverb time was changed to 100 seconds; that didn't really play well with my scene controller attached to that parameter (which I use in all my presets), so I had to manually change back my original settings in that case.

Even the last update going from G2 to G3 has been pretty much painless for me. There have been minor tweaks in between, but the times I really had to sit down and retweak every single patch due to firmware updates can be counted on one hand. So I'm not dreading any updates. Worst case scenario is I have to reinstall a backup. The horror.

...no, actually worst case scenario is that the Axe spontaneously combusts while it's programming the firmware, but I've yet to see that complaint appear in the Bugs section.

 

[Cagey]

...even with not the latest firmware the sound with an AXE FXII is far away from bad...

Good point. It's not like you're ever going from "OMFG THIS IS AWFUL!" to "Why didn't they do this a long time ago?" You're always going from incredibly good to marginally better. Skipping an update isn't the end of the world. Far from it. And it's rarely a sea change. It's incremental.

 

[Rocket Brother]

Always expect the best, and I never worry.
Cliff has not let me down so far, but on the off-chance that I don't like what I'm hearing, I can always re-load that former FW and my presets from that FW.
I ALWAYS back up my presets before uploading a new FW - esay peasy and no worries.

 

[MrGuitarabuse]

update every third or fourth FW or so. Wait for Fremens update, send him 50bux, done!

 

[Sixstring]

Anymore I just go for it and update.

 

[Rotti]

Kinda' off topic, but I'm glad we've got this metric now... helps a bit to know who the actual "vocal minority" is when it comes to fear over updating presets.

 

[jlynnb1]

i just had a feeling that mindset and expectation played at least a minor role, one way or the other. I'm certain there are extremes on either side, there always is. That doesn't mean people don't have issues, or that there's not improvement....just definitely not nearly as drastic as either "side" would like to pretend it is. I doubt anyones tones have been totally wrecked by a minor tweak to the power section, and also doubt that someones tones are "omg amazing the best ever my mind is blown" by the same update.

 

[spikey]

Just curious, do you go into an update excited, expecting things to be better or are you full of dread expecting the most minute of tweaks in the update to wreck your patches/tones?

Is it like boarding an airplane and hoping the pilot knows what they are doing kinda question? Yet at one point or another we all do this, many of us on a daily basis...

I have been pleased on the updates done since I got my Axe FX II, somewhere around version 10 i think. Each one added to the Axe FX II, but also in the trust of knowing that these guys are for real, and do appreciate me as a customer. Thats rare these days...

 

[Speculum Speculorum]

My philosophy (which has likely been expressed already) is back up your current firmware and let 'er rip, son! The only time this has ever bitten me in the ass was when it was a truly experimental beta, and it bricked my unit up. I had to wait a week to get my EPROM chip delivered.

There will come a point, of course, where I get down to serious business of working on a project, at which point I'm going to ignore updates until the project is done so that I can just... you know... get it done rather than "improve my sound".

 

[EJ James (Street)]

1) Do I have time to update and tweak? If "yes", then
2) Read release notes to see if anything new has been added that is a "must have" in my book.
3) If there are "must have's", backup current firmware, presets, and user cabs
4) Update firmware and play with it for a few days.
5) If no bugs or issues found and I like new features/changes, keep it. If not
6) Restore backup and carry on my merry way.

I've gone months without updating. I recently went from 15.x to 17.x when I found myself with some free time. Luckily I also found some free time to upgrade to 18.x (currently on .12, the latest).

All good so far and enjoying it.

That said, I've encountered a couple of updates I didn't like and did roll back (due to minor bugs). I've also had to redownload a couple of firmwares (recently both 17 and 18 dot.revisions) since the initial download was corrupt and wouldn't transfer.

To each his own. Do what works for you.

 

[Danny Danzi]

I go into an update excited, expecting and hoping for the best and really stoked to try the new things. So I voted for "the best always expecting better."

BUT, recently, the updates have been a bit less transparent and more destructive. So, I no longer get excited about the updates because they really alter my tone to the point of not liking it, so I really can't update. I'm still the happiest with 17.04.

One of the things I hope Cliff will be able to do some day, is to allow people that are totally happy with the Axe to keep that level of happiness while having the ability to update to the new features too.

I know, I've been down this road before with my opinion on this. But honest, you have to be one of us in this crowd to understand it. Remember when we could update and it wouldn't mess with our presets unless we reinitialized and amp or effect? Isn't there a way to keep our updates like that so those of us who are content can still enjoy all the OTHER new things that get added?

It's probably too hard to do and if you're Cliff, you're looking at the roster of voters here and you know guys like me are in the minority. It's really a hard situation to be in. "Just stay at 17.04 and shut up". Right, I know that...I'm doing it hence why I don't have much to offer as of late. But I almost feel punished for that due to all the cool stuff that can also be incredibly useful in these updates that I can't get to. Can anyone see my point and that I'm not crying or trying to start any crap?

There are quite a few users that are hobbyists having fun. The things that matter to them don't matter to some of us. The things that matter to guys like me may not matter right now or ever to a hobby guy. Both of our opinions and needs are valid regardless of skill or income. I know we can't please everyone and we can't cater to a minority. That said, I think (from what I've learned, heard and read) our minority are a group of players that have a good sense of tone, so we're not just whiners crying out "for the sake of" when this topic comes up. At least I'm not.....I just try my best to totally explain it (a bit too wordy I know...sorry) so that no stone is left unturned and hopefully no one is offended.

In a nutshell, it would be great to have an update that would give us bells and whistles minus major tone changes if we didn't want them. Almost like breaking things up into two updates. One can do your entire unit...the other can just update creature comforts and additional "Cliff goodies" so that we're not losing something tone-wise that is already incredible; and we can get some of the other awesome stuff that's been implemented as options.

Anyway, I just wanted to let people know why I voted the way I did as well as my feelings towards it. I'm not meaning to cause any trouble, I just would love to be able to update without losing what I have because it's really not as simple as "you update or you don't" anymore. The other added goodies in some ways are essential in my opinion and I may never be able to use them. I have to weigh "what do you need more....great tone that makes you walk on 3 legs because it's so killer, or cooler creature comforts/options?" Great tone wins for me every time...but I can't help but wish I could also implement the other great stuff.

 

[Sidivan]

It's a little more complicated for me. I don't update unless something major changes in my rig. I found my favorite tones in v13 and didn't see the need to update until recently. The reason? I bought a new main guitar. I had to re-dial in tones for it anyway, so I figured I might as well update. I literally changed NOTHING about my high gain scene and it sounded incredible. The crunch and clean scenes did not fare so well.

So, I dread updating my patches, but I knew I had to anyway and expected it to be better.