What is the better method for tweaking patches, in your opinion?

Philip34

Philip34

Experienced
I've seen several methods explained for tweaking patches (Cooper Carter, Chris, Scott Peterson, Mikko, etc.). Which do you guys think works best for you, and does the guitar you use change the method you use? I have my method, but I want to learn more, expand my horizons, both for tweaking more efficiently (more time playing, less time tweaking) and effectively (better sounds).

1) Method #1: first adjust MV, then input gain, then BMT, until strings match volumes on octaves

2) Method #2: first adjust gain in amp, then adjust filters in cab block, then BMT in amp if necessary

3) Method #3: 100Hz low cut & 10k high cut in cab block, then adjust MV, then BMT, then input gain

4) ??? Something else ???
 
If I have to spend more than 2 minutes tweaking, I move on to another amp and/or cab.

This FW, above all, sounds fantastic at default values. I spend more time on poweramp/preamp interaction than anything else. Like I said, if it doesn't work quickly, I know to move on to another choice. All the 'go-to's that I have used over the years are slowly falling away. Dephase is almost nonexistent, any advanced parameters are ignored. I still cut a bit low/high on cab block, I bump motor drive, and maybe play with the tube pre in the cab block, but outside of that, not much. If I'm looking for a sound, there is an 'aha!' moment when I get the right combination at defaults, then small changes make it perfect.

Funny that I find that leaving mids at 5 seems to have a better mix than when I bump it.

Tweaking is HIGHLY individual. Different ears will go to different things. No bible for what's right for everyone.
 
There are so many variations out there. What I have decided to do after FW7 is to have one IR that I use and know, then scroll through the different amps and select what I like within a minute of tweaking. I figured if I think there is potential by liking what I initially hear, then I will invest more time in that amp. Certain amps do sound better with certain IR's, but in order to understand the variables of one device (i.e. amp), then the other device (cab) needs to be a constant. Later, I may scroll through IR's with the same amp. By the end of the exhaustive but joyful process, I will accumulate many potential patches before I give them a road test by going to a rehearsal studio or in a larger space where I can turn up and play at gig volume with either backing tracks or preferably with other musicians.

I read so many comments here about users asking about what amps they like, but not many ever talk about what cab impulses they are using, and more importantly, what equipment is been used for the auditioning process. EG, studio speakers, headphones, frfr, power amp and cab, etc. Most are at low volumes one would assume, however, I have found that my studio patches will not be exactly the same as my gigging patches due to the fletcher munson curve that has been discussed on this forum on a number occasions.
 
Treat it like a real amp.
You don't get these fancy filters on real amps.
Do all your tweaks in the basic page. Everything else is for small tweaks.

One exception: The speaker page is very important if you want it to be as authentic as possible. Real amps do these values naturally, but for a modeller you have to set these up yourself, as the modeler has no idea what cab you are using or how that cab interacts with the amp.
 
Philip34 said:
I've seen several methods explained for tweaking patches (Cooper Carter, Chris, Scott Peterson, Mikko, etc.). Which do you guys think works best for you, and does the guitar you use change the method you use? I have my method, but I want to learn more, expand my horizons, both for tweaking more efficiently (more time playing, less time tweaking) and effectively (better sounds).

1) Method #1: first adjust MV, then input gain, then BMT, until strings match volumes on octaves

2) Method #2: first adjust gain in amp, then adjust filters in cab block, then BMT in amp if necessary

3) Method #3: 100Hz low cut & 10k high cut in cab block, then adjust MV, then BMT, then input gain

4) ??? Something else ???
Click to expand...
I find that with the last 4 or 5 firmware versions I have much less tweaking than previously. Mostly just BMT, presence, maybe juice the sag a little. Pretty simple.
 
In rehearsal or at loud volumes. Adjust bmtp etc. level out with VU meter, adjust by ear for any tone differences.

Turn the volume down to moderate quiet, and listen. Then adjust as necessary.
 
The trick is finding the right cab. A great IR will cut your tweaking time significantly, and you may end up not having to tweak at all (or very little) after you stumble onto the right one. The power of a great IR can't be overstated. When you spend a lot of time tweaking, it's generally not the modeling you're wrestling with.
 
It really comes down to experience/knowledge & understanding how to adjust or "tweak" whatever part of the audio you are hearing that you want to change and what parameter(s) will do it. And also knowing if the equipment you are using is able to do it.
This really can take years & years to learn and I don't think there are any real shortcuts for listening, turning knobs & listening & also feeling.
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with using a certain "formula" or a consistent way of going about things.
But having said that now, I am not a, "first page only guy," there are IMO a few very "magical" parameters in the other Amp Menu Pages that make subtle changes but when added together the sum is greater than the parts and add that last bit of, "wow, damn that is good!" There's actually a lot of really good stuff in there from major tone shaping tools to subtle stuff that can really help fine tune all aspects of your gain structure.
The one downside I suppose is that with all the FW updates, being a deep parameter editor can take some time if you use a lot of different amps/patches. But once ya have a good feel & ear for what you like, the editing goes pretty quick.
The other big part of the formula that was already mentioned is the Cab IR's. These are a huge, huge, huge part of the sound. I think I saw in my IR folder the last time I looked over 10,000 IR's, obviously I haven't even come close to hearing all of them, but I probably only use maybe 20-30 of them but really have 5-10 "go to" ones. And even beyond that, the IR collection I have has also been a really great way to get a good ear and feel for different speakers, mics & cabs/cab sizes & also mixing stereo configurations of different speaker types and/or mic types.
There's a ton of sound shaping that goes on in the cab, the speaker and then the mic and mic placement. Just the IR alone can make the same amp with the same settings sound unrecognizable.
 
A couple of my "secret weapons" in tweaking, which I apply almost every time for a more open sounding amp:
- Setting XFormer Match (Amp Block / Speaker Tab) to 0.9 for a more open ring
- Cutting -1dB at 500 Hz on the 8 Band Var Q (Amp Block / GEQ Tab) for a less boxy sound in the mix
- Low Cut 37Hz, Hi Cut ~9650Hz (Cab Block) for a more true, cab-like response
- Occasionally tweaking Lo Res and Hi Res amount and Q (Amp Block / Speaker Tab) to fine-tune amp-speaker interaction when needed
 
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