What high end recording mic/line preamp to pair with Axe FX II

RossE

RossE

Inspired
I'm doing some reconfig of my studio and looking for input on high end mic pres (or low end if killer results) to use when recording the Axe FX II. I've used channels of a Phoenix Audio DRS-8 and a Harrison Lineage with decent results.

Two questions...

1) What do you guys use in your high quality studio recording chain with the Axe II, direct or preamp channels?

2 ) If preamp channels, what have you found to be a 'golden match' to pair up with the Axe II?

Thanks....
 
I think that would depend on what you are recording onto, if its a digital medium, that is, you're recording onto your computer HDD, then I don't really see a point to a pre-amp between the axe & computer when you can record a digital signal direct without any color from the pre-amp, and the double Digital-Analog conversions you would get (A->D, D->A, A->D.... triple actually). It is noted, that the Axe's D->A output converters are top notch and very clean, I would still think its an unnecessary step when you can get the "source code" of your signal in digital directly from the Axe.

Now, if you're recording onto a tape deck, I'm not so sure what you would need. I do believe the axe sends out line level, so again, not sure if you would want a coloring preamp... I guess my whole point is that anything you put b/t the axe and recorder would color your signal, and what's the point if the axe already gives you the signal you want?

just my thoughts.. :)
 
I use analog XLR or S/PDIF to track the AxeFx directly into my DAW audio interface.

My high-end pre is an Avalon 737. I don't use it with the AxeFx though.
 
Thanks Evz. All good points. In a band environment recording two players at once each with an Axe Fx II (this is my situation), I see only potential problems. Would one AXE FX USB driver loaded on the DAW see both Axe II signals coming in? Also I would be concerned about conflicts between the Axe II USB driver and my RME interface driver running at the same time. Have you tried anything like that?

Specifically to the mic preamp point, I was thinking a high end tube preamp to add some additional analog warmth and mojo. The preamp itself obviously adds no additional conversion if recording from the Axe II analog outs.
 
I like the S/PDIF option, but that limits your recording to 48k/24bit. I normally record at 88.2.
 
RossE said:
I like the S/PDIF option, but that limits your recording to 48k/24bit. I normally record at 88.2.
Click to expand...

I keep the analog and S/PDIF (and USB) all patched at the same time. I use analog when the session is not 24/48.

I run Pro Tools 10.x on Windows. I have found using USB with the AxeFx not a good option when I want to track other sources too. I use the USB and the Fractal for AxeEdit, FracalBot and the occasional demo in Pro Tools.
 
Thanks Barh......same here on USB. I only use the USB for Axe Edit and Fractalbot tasks. That brings me full circle back to my XLR outs. My thinking on that is if the Axe II converters are great and my DAW converters are also, then the conversion hops are just the nature of the beast and nothing to lament about.

So the real question....is putting a set of high quality preamp channels in the chain to add some analog goodness pointless or worth pursuing? I've heard some high end tube preamps like the LaChapell 992 or the Electronaut M63 that make anything running through them sound magical. I was just hoping somebody might jump in with some magical Axe II/preamp combos they had used.
 
Personally, I don't think the preamp is worth it, seems like money that could be spend on an interface, since you're recording to digital format anyway, I'll keep to my "stick to digital path" recommendation. USB from axe is defined here: Reamping - Axe-Fx II Wiki and seems like it only passes through dry signal, but the output is in stereo - thus you can split both guitar signals to left and right and record separately.

Regarding recording quality, 48 is the limit of the axe output, covering 48 to analog and re-recording as 88 will not improve anything from a digital standpoint.

Personally I am using AES (as Cliff noted he uses) output from axe (again stereo output) to my RME ufx, and I like it. Regarding the whole quality issue, the axe operates at 48, and 48 is your limit on that path (similar to "your process speed is limited by the slowest task"). Adding a high-quality preamp will only add preamp color.

TLDR: Don't think its worth pursuing, maybe go for an interface with AES (its mentioned to work better than SPDIF I think...), and from what I can tell "Analog Goodness" = color.

Hope this helps :) (and if I'm totally wrong, someone please correct me!)
 
In a guitar-centric project, I would definitely consider using outboard gear when tracking the guitars. In that case the guitars would be like the LV and get special treatment.

But in general, I find the Fractal analog out really good. Good enough to track as is with no compromise audio quality.
 
Evz...you are not wrong. But in the scope of a band recording core tracks of a song including guitar, you're solution has issues for me.
1) Using an Axe II should not prevent me from recording the rest of the band at 88.2
2) Using an Axe II should not limit me to always recording at 48k or less.
3) If I'm mic'ing an amp I can record at whatever rate I deem appropriate. We want the Axe II to be on a level playing field with a mic'd amp, right. Then we have to be confident that the audio quality from the Axe II analog outputs can compete with the audio quality coming from that amp mic cable.

I'm in agreement with Barhrecords......I think it can be just as good. Preamp color is what it's all about. If we didn't appreciate a little preamp color there wouldn't be so many flavors of it to put on a lead vocal or a sax, etc. The Axe II can sound great all by itself. But....if some preamp color can give the tone a unique vibe for a unique song, or a signature sound to a players tone, why not have those options? Unless of course it degrades the audio quality significantly?

You do have me interested in trying the AES connections though, when I record at 48k or less.
 
In my project studio I have limited outboard gear.

In general though, the usual suspects apply to guitar tracking and the Fractal. Neve 1073 or clones and API EQ's are what my ears like. These can be too soft for modern rock and metal though, so it would depend on the project. I love the sound of old school rock guitars so I'm a Neve guy.
 
I just noticed you said both guitarists have an Axe, in that case forget direct USB recording for both, it will be a probably become a pain to deal with drivers/ clock. You can look at multi-AES boxes, as I am pretty sure there's some RME equipment that supports it.

In my case, I run the AXE->AES-> RME UFX, and the rest of the band into the standard UFX inputs. I think in either way, if you are doing 88.2, then you would have to use analog out from axe, otherwise your interface would have be clocked to 44/48 for the axe as far as I can tell.
 
For guitar I record the processed and DI signals via USB. For bass I record the processed signal via analog and for the DI I copy input 1 to output 2 and run it through my Golden Age Project Pre-73 (I use the analog because it is time synced with the DI without nudging). I might apply plug-in effects in the DAW such as Waves Kramer Tape, J-37 Tape, RS-56 or other high quality analog emulations but only very subtle, nothing drastic. Everything else is straight Axe-FX.
 
I just finished guitars and bass on a record, where I went Analog Out into a pair of Brent Averill 312A mic pres, simply for the added color, and it sounds great. I think of the Analog outs as the mics themselves, so in a "normal" situation those would run into preamps that would "color" the sound (in a positive way, for the most part) and I want the same for the Axe signal.
 
I don't think a high end preamp could hurt things. That is the way that guitars have been recorded for a long time. Guitar>amp>cab>mic>mic pre. It all depends on what you like I guess. There is another option though that you might want to try. The Redwirez Big Box comes with IR for various preamps as well as all of the cab impulses. If you have something like cab lab you could make your own IR with one of the preamp IRs and see what it sounds like. This is definitely something that I wanna try even though I haven't really had time to mess around with it.
 
For electric guitar recording I don't think most would need a preamp after the Axe Fx.
Having said that, I use AES into my Metric Halo ULN-8.
The ULN-8 let's me use the MIO software including the outstanding Channel Strip, Character preamp-simulations and an 80-bit summing mixer.
Also the ULN-8 let's me line mix my TC 2290 and other outboard hardware gear into the signal if desired.
The Character preamp-sims are very cool and great to add, well character, when needed.
I always use Character when recording my acoustics.
 
Thanks for all the feedback gents. I've decided to get an Electronaut M63 for the studio. A tube mic pre that is magic on drum overheads, lead vocals, acoustic instruments, piano.....just about anything. I'm looking forward to running the Axe through it and see what I get.
 
when running the axe FX into an external preamp, do you need a DI before the mic inputs to convert the signal to mic level? If so, passive or active?

I am either going to running the Axe FX analog outs into a preamp for tracking, or tracking via AES digitally, and then sending the signal via an AD/DA loop into an external preamp for some analog color out of the box. In both cases, do I need a passive/active DI before it hits the preamps mix inputs?
 
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