What am I doing wrong here?

R

ryansays

New Member
Hi, an Axe-FX Noob here, Does anyone have any advice or tips on getting heavy electric guitars to sound pro? I know, just hold on a sec here. I just bought an Axe-Fx II XL and some of the high gain/distortion tones are great but it still does not sound pro to me and I see guys (on Youtube) using the Axe-fx just like I am and their tones actually sound "pro". I know this has some to do with EQing and Compression, but I feel like the raw tone is sounding cheap and almost like the sound is coming from an amp in the next room that is not even mic'd. Like a boxy cheap sound. (This is the reason I literally threw my Eleven Rack out the window) so $2600 later I'm getting a little nervous here. My signal chain is Les Paul > Axe-FX > MOTU Audio Express > Pro Tools 11 > KRK monitors. All connected with brand new Mogami cables and my input levels are good. So i feel like my sound should be kick ass and it's not. I am very picky about tone especially distortion but I feel like my setup/The Axe-FX isn't even meeting me halfway here. What do you think? Any advice/tips is appreciated. Note: I'm going main outputs of the Axe to balanced line-In (ch3&4) to the MOTU. recording on 2 mono Audio tracks in Pro Tools panned hard L/R. So are the inputs on the 2 mono tracks just the L line-in channel from the Axe? Is this right? And what is S/PIDF? Do I need it? Thanks guys!!
 
S/PDIF is a digital audio stream, delivering stereo audio at various sample rates and bit depths. I'd highly recommend that you use it instead of the analog inputs of your MOTU interface, assuming your MOTU has S/PDIF IN. (I'm assuming it does – yep, I just checked – just run a good cable from the Axe's S/PDIF Out to the MOTU S/PDIF In. Make sure all your sample rates are set to 48k. Much better than going analog.)

This allows you to bypass the whole digital/analog/digital conversion process, and feed Pro Tools the direct digital signal from the Axe-FX.

That won't address your other tone questions; I'll leave that to our other forum denizens. Good luck! I know the Axe can do just what you want it to.
 
Out of curiosity, you might try to circumvent the MOTU and just use the Axe-Fx as your interface. Connect the KRKs directly to the Axe-Fx and see how it sounds, and record to Pro Tools directly over USB. If this improves things, your issue is external to the Axe-Fx.

If it doesn't improve, then post a track recorded in this manner to the forum, and perhaps we can suggest something.

Trust me, though - don't throw the unit out the window. Professional tones are there - you just might have to finess a bit to get them out out your setup.
 
If I read correctly, you're recording the same take into 2 tracks and then hard panning them, isn't?

If that's true, it's a bad move. Do a double track (or quad track if you wish, but double track is enough). That means to play the same passage twice (or four times if you're quad tracking) and pan the tracks.

That's a big step forward to what you call a "pro" sound.
 
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Build presets from scratch. While some of the factory presets sound pretty good with my gear, I'm usually quite disappointed when I try to use anyone else's presets. Too many variables at play. Forget about effects and studio tricks until you get the amp and cab blocks sounding the way you want. There's a lot of possibilities in just those two blocks alone. Cab IR's play an enormous role in the overall sound of any preset, so experiment A LOT here.
 
mono panning of same track hard left right always seems thin to me. ax has stereo effects do the panning there if you want double track sound, with out double tracking hard left right mono track is just two of the same mono track
 
paranoid said:
mono panning of same track hard left right always seems thin to me. ax has stereo effects do the panning there if you want double track sound, with out double tracking hard left right mono track is just two of the same mono track
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This won't, in and of itself, make the guitar sound thin - it's simply mono.
 
Main thing I can say is be patient... not just with the Axe-FX, but with the forum. Some people are quick to be a smart-ass, just ignore them rather than fire back. Takes a bit of a thick skin.

As for your sound issue, since you already have a decent audio interface with decent converters, switching to S-PDIF in my opinion won't make a significant change. There are plenty of us using the analog outs into a decent interface and getting great results.

More important:
1. Take the time to learn to build your own presets that have YOUR sound. The presets can be OK for some, but until you really know the unit and can get your sound you probably won't see it as sounding quite professional. There is a learning curve with this thing, so take your time and get to know it. When I get the amp and cab right, I'll make a few final tweaks using the Passive 5-band EQ in the amp, and then finally... once that is good, then I start to think about what other effects to add to a patch.
2. A lot of the tracks you hear are double, triple or quad tracked tightly. I do my rhythm tracks in mono with multiple takes that are panned (usually just using the left output from the Axe-FX into a channel on my interface). Depending on the song I'll do anywhere from 2-4 tracks, and I come from the school where I use a different patch and/or a different guitar for each track so that they complement each other. Others will use the same settings and get decent results with multi-tracking.

If I think of anything else I'll post later... just remembered I'm supposed to be working. LOL
 
Genghis said:
As for your sound issue, since you already have a decent audio interface with decent converters, switching to S-PDIF in my opinion won't make a significant change. There are plenty of us using the analog outs into a decent interface and getting great results.
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Genghis, I absolutely agree; using S/PDIF is not going to address OP's tone questions at all. I was responding to his direct question – what is it?

Philosophically, it just makes sense to me that if you have all the tools you need to avoid the conversion process from the Axe's digital –> Axe analog –> MOTU analog –> MOTU digital –> DAW, why not use them and stay digital all the way?

No matter how good the Axe's D/A converters and the MOTU A/D converters are, that's two stages of conversion (and two audio cables) you can eliminate with one simple digital cable. Why not? It's just more elegant.

IMHO, there are many users with everything they need to use S/PDIF who are going analog because they don't realize they have other options; they've never done it before. So I'm a self-appointed S/PDIF evangelist. (Though I promise not to knock on anyone's door on Sunday morning. :) )
 
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I know what you're saying but I like to record at 44.1K and SPDIF ties you to 48K. For me it's a sample rate preference, nothing more really. That and I really don't think the difference is audible in a mix.

And FWIW I wasn't commenting on your response randyman, it was the post that the OP put up (and appears to have deleted) stating that he would try that. I'd say it might give you that extra .001% when you get your tone 99.99% there, but thought I'd offer up some suggestions on how to get it to that point. Your descripion of S/PDIF was very good actually. I'd probably use it if I was recording at 48K.
 
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Genghis is right imho different tones in multiple tracks make big sound,i do not know what your patchs are but proper delays,multiple cap ir's stereo enhancer, reverbs,picth detune are just a few things I use to make a singletrack bigger. send out a sound clip or your preset and guitar info that would help to better solve or help you with your problem.
 
Ok thanks for the tips randyman and Genghis! I think maybe I need to just spend more time with this thing just messing with the amp and cab blocks. Maybe my expectations were too high out of the gate but that is based on all the research I did videos of others using it before i bought it. I just know that if i plug into my JCM900 half stack sitting here it's gonna sound decent without tweeking anything so just thought putting up some of the high gain factory presets would be just as satisfying as a starting point. I will try s/pidf and also going straight to the monitors from the axe and see it that makes any difference. I don't know why my earlier reply got deleted. I'm gonna spend all weekend tone shaping so if I get nowhere I'll post a clip.
 
i know you aren't saying there's something wrong with the Axe, so don't take this wrong, but the tone are obviously there. Countless clips, videos, albums, etc say otherwise. Just gotta learn how to get there. Also, don't expect your isolated clips to sound like what you hear in a mix, especially a professionally mixed and mastered track. they never will, they can't. try and find some isolated stems and then compare....you'll see tracks on their on usually sound far from big or meaty or huge or any other term most people use to describe guitar tones they are looking for, especially when it comes to heavy tones.
 
ryansays said:
Ok thanks for the tips randyman and Genghis! I think maybe I need to just spend more time with this thing just messing with the amp and cab blocks. Maybe my expectations were too high out of the gate but that is based on all the research I did videos of others using it before i bought it. I just know that if i plug into my JCM900 half stack sitting here it's gonna sound decent without tweeking anything so just thought putting up some of the high gain factory presets would be just as satisfying as a starting point. I will try s/pidf and also going straight to the monitors from the axe and see it that makes any difference. I don't know why my earlier reply got deleted. I'm gonna spend all weekend tone shaping so if I get nowhere I'll post a clip.
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your first mistake is sitting it next to a half stack and expecting it so sound the same. it never will. period. what you are hearing from the Axe is the whole signal chain, mic'd and ready for recording/foh....not a raw amp tone blasting out of a 4x12 your standing next to. the only way to compare those tones is to isolate the amp, mic it, then listen to it through the same monitors you are playing the Axe through.
 
I don't think answers on a forum are going to take your recording and tracking rig and suddenly make you get the "pro" results you want.

I would recommend getting the Toontrack EZ Mix software and Sneap's mixing add on. Study what he does to guitars.

With the Fractal you don't have to worry about the acoustics of the tracking room, or obtaining good amp heads and cabinets, obtaining microphones, preamps, learning micing technique, etc. So that is a huge leg up.

But professional guitar tracks as heard on records are almost always processed in post. The EZ Mix stuff is a simple way to get your feet wet and start on the journey of learning what to do in post to make your flavor of beautiful noise :)

Also spend a ton of time listening to other peoples work that you admire on your monitors. Regularly A/B mixes and tracks that you love with your own work and learn what is different about your tracks. Is it EQ? Compression? Reverb? The amp choices or guitars?
 
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