Not a Bug Wah block

[lscottk]

I believe that I've stumbled on a bug. I'm posting here to see if others experience what I'm experiencing. I have an FM9T and I have Firmware 5.01 installed.

I recently created a patch for my band. I included a Wah block and setup auto-engage using my spring loaded Mission SP1 pedal. The SP1 is plugged into the Pedal 1 jack on my FM9T.

In addition to my band, I also play on Sunday at my church. Yesterday I took my FM9T to church without bringing my SP1 expression pedal. I intended to use my band preset for the church service, but I didn't bring the expression pedal because I didn't need it for the service.

We do a song run through before the service. During the run through I noticed a harsh metallic sound. I turned the tone knob on my guitar down and went with the crappy tone so as not to make others wait while I figured out what was happening. After song run through, I discovered that the wah block was active, not bypassed. I attempted to bypass the wah block using the front panel. I highlighted the wah block and pushed on the encoder labeled "bypass" and nothing happened. I double/triple checked that I had highlighted the wah block. I clicked on the bypass button. The wah block would not turn off. To get through the service I just used a different preset with no wah block.

Later, when I got home, I created the attached preset to use for testing. The test preset has minimal blocks - wah, amp, and cab blocks. After adding the wah block, I verified that the wah block was bypassed on all 8 scenes. I then saved the preset.

After saving the preset I setup auto-engage using FM9-Edit. I used my spring loaded Mission SP1 plugged into the pedal 1 jack. I set the pedal to auto-engage using the "medium speed" setting. I verified that auto-engage was working properly. Push on the pedal, wah engages. Return pedal to "heel down" position and the wah automatically turns off. I then resaved the preset.

After doing some testing, I discovered the following:

1. If I power off the FM9T and turn it back on with the SP1 plugged in to pedal 1, then auto-engage functions normally.
2. If I power off the FM9T and turn it back on with the SP1 unplugged then the wah block is turned on. If I attempt to use the front panel on the FM9T to bypass the wah block, the bypass button does not work.
3. If I power off the FM9T and turn it back on with the SP1 unplugged, wah is turned on. If I change to a different preset, and then return to the test preset (see attached), then the bypass button works normally and I can turn off the wah block.

The above is the same behavior that I exprienced when using the preset I created for my band. So this anomaly is occuring on at least two presets. I haven't tested it on more than these two presets. This does not seem like normal or desirable behavior, so I am reporting here.

The test preset is attached.

Scott

 

[skolacki]

Pretty sure that’s the way it is. With an open input assigned to auto engage it will float high. Make presets with and without the wah. Or turn auto engage.

 

[lscottk]

I just did some additional testing:

1. I deleted the wah block in the test preset.
2. I saved the preset with just amp and cab blocks.
3. I added the wah block back to the preset, but did not configure auto-engage.
4. I power-cycled the FM9T and the wah block was bypassed as saved.
5. I configured auto-engage without having the SP1 pedal plugged in to the FM9T. I used the same settings reported above - plugged in to pedal 1 jack and auto-engage set to medium speed.
6. When I closed the "Edit Modifier" window I noticed that, after setting up auto-engage, the "Control" knob in the wah block defaults to "10". The knob setting will not adjust, and returns to "10" if I attempt to turn it down.
7. If I plug my SP1 (without power cycling) then the "Control" knob in the wah block returns to "0"
8. If I unplug my SP1 (without power cycling) then the "Control" knob in the wah block returns to "10"
9. This behavior appears to go away if I change to a different preset and then return to the test preset.
10. With the SP1 pedal unplugged, I selected "Pedal 1" from the Source drop down menu in the WahWah 1 Modifier window. I left auto-engage off. After I closed the Modifier window the Control knob defaulted to "10". I attempted to manually move the Control knob value to 1. When I "let go" of the knob, it automatically returned to "10". It appears that it is not possible to manually lower the value while the pedal is unplugged. However, the wah block is "bypassed" in the grid, so the tone is not affected.
11. I power-cycled the FM9T with Pedal 1 configured as the modifier of the Control knob and the wah block remained bypassed when loaded.
12. I configured the Modifier to use Pedal 1 and I turned on auto-engage (medium speed). A pedal is not connected to the FM9T. I saved the preset and power cycled the FM9T. After rebooting and with the Control knob Modifier set to Pedal 1 with auto-engage turned on the wah block is engaged and the "Bypass" button doesn't work. If I change to a different preset and then return to the test preset then the wah block turns off.

 

[mr_fender]

If you assign your pedal to one of the External Controllers and use that External Controller as the source for your wah modifier, you can define the initial value of the External Controllers in the MIDI/Remote menu and it will use that value in cases when the pedal is not plugged in. In your case, since you have a spring loaded pedal, you'd want the initial value to be zero.

Edit: Nevermind. That works with MIDI controllers, not the physical pedal ports.

 

[elvis]

I have my wah auto-engage at the 95% point (toe-down). This seems to fix the auto-engage issue when exp pedal not plugged in. Not really helpful with a spring-loaded exp pedal tho.

 

[lscottk]

Okay - thank you for the replies. It just seems odd that the wah block is on when the FM9T is powered on, but the wah block reverts to bypass if I change from the initial preset to a different one. This just seems inconsistent . . .

 

[lscottk]

Sorry, my last statement was unclear - It should have read "the wah block is on when the FM9T is powered on, but the wah block reverts to bypass if I change from the initial preset to a different one, and then back to the same preset that was active upon reboot"

 

[lscottk]

I see that this thread has been marked as "Not A Bug"

Can someone explain why the wah block is on upon boot up, but off after changing and cycling back to the original preset? And why the bypass button doesn't work after the FM9T first boots up? If these behaviors are not a bug then I'd like to understand the logic of why things work this way. Especially the bypass button not working.

Thanks!

 

[unix-guy]

I see that this thread has been marked as "Not A Bug"

Can someone explain why the wah block is on upon boot up, but off after changing and cycling back to the original preset? And why the bypass button doesn't work after the FM9T first boots up? If these behaviors are not a bug then I'd like to understand the logic of why things work this way. Especially the bypass button not working.

Thanks!

Yes, this is a known behaviour the seems to only affect the boot-up preset.

It's been reported a number of times.

I am not sure it should be marked as Not a Bug because I'm not sure we understand why it affects the boot-up preset only.

By the way, did you try the recommendation above regarding using an External Controller? I don't recall if that fixes or not...

 

[mr_fender]

No, it doesn't. I edited my post. The External Controller Initial Value settings only applies to MIDI controllers, not the physical pedal ports.

 

[lscottk]

Yes, this is a known behaviour the seems to only affect the boot-up preset.

It's been reported a number of times.

I am not sure it should be marked as Not a Bug because I'm not sure we understand why it affects the boot-up preset only.

By the way, did you try the recommendation above regarding using an External Controller? I don't recall if that fixes or not...

Cool, thanks for your response. I lurk around here a lot. I'm surprised that I haven't seen the previous reports.

It's nice to know that I'm not crazy.

When I first couldn't bypass the wah block I thought that the problem might be that when I created and first saved the preset I saved it with the wah block active. So, upon boot up, it was defaulting to the saved state. But when I created the test preset I made sure that the wah block was bypassed in all scenes before I saved the preset. This didn't affect the anomalous behavior.

In the future at least I'll know that changing the preset will remove the odd (I won't call it a bug) behavior from the preset loaded at boot up.

 

[Moke]

No, it doesn't. I edited my post. The External Controller Initial Value settings only applies to MIDI controllers, not the physical pedal ports.

I believe that it does when the External Controllers are using the Pedal ports as the source.

 

[bleujazz3]

Yes, this is a known behaviour the seems to only affect the boot-up preset.

It's been reported a number of times.

I am not sure it should be marked as Not a Bug because I'm not sure we understand why it affects the boot-up preset only.

By the way, did you try the recommendation above regarding using an External Controller? I don't recall if that fixes or not...

@unix-guy,

Could you help clarify so I can understand this?

From what you've said, you've mentioned that the "bug"/known behavior the OP described affects only the default boot/start-up preset. A takeaway from this might be to not include a wah in your boot-up preset, rather than risk the issue the OP experienced.

If correct, the known behavior would not recur in subsequent presets. Has this been documented yet, or has anyone else reported the known behavior in presets other than boot-up, which might indicate a more significant issue than what the OP reported? (Not sure how to research the problem with our search function, so thought it best to let an authority speak...)

 

[unix-guy]

@unix-guy,

Could you help clarify so I can understand this?

From what you've said, you've mentioned that the "bug"/known behavior the OP described affects only the default boot/start-up preset. A takeaway from this might be to not include a way in your boot-up preset, rather than risk the issue the OP experienced.

If correct, the known behavior would not recur in subsequent presets. Has this been documented yet, or has anyone else reported the known behavior in presets other than boot-up, which might indicate a more significant issue than what the OP reported? (Not sure how to research the problem with our search function, so thought it best to let an authority speak...)

I think it's best to just be aware of it if you frequently take your Fractal gear out without your normal expression pedal(s).

It's easy enough to quickly change presets and back again.

Also, it isn't limited to Wah... Could be Volume or whatever else you might have attached.

 

[bleujazz3]

I think it's best to just be aware of it if you frequently take your Fractal gear out without your normal expression pedal(s).

It's easy enough to quickly change presets and back again.

Also, it isn't limited to Wah... Could be Volume or whatever else you might have attached.

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, it would have been a concern because my boot-up preset had both wah and formant attached. Just thought to thank both the OP and the other folks who responded for nipping a potential stage issue in the bud before it happened.

My workaround was to simply re-locate my boot-up wah preset further inwards of bank 1 of my boot-up screens, and replace the boot-up preset with a preset that does not use an expression pedal. May not work for everyone, but heck, it saved me a load of grief otherwise.

 

[unix-guy]

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, it would have been a concern because my boot-up preset had both wah and formant attached. Just thought to thank both the OP and the other folks who responded for nipping a potential stage issue in the bud before it happened.

My workaround was to simply re-locate my boot-up wah preset further inwards of bank 1 of my boot-up screens, and replace the boot-up preset with a preset that does not use an expression pedal. May not work for everyone, but heck, it saved me a load of grief otherwise.

Yeah, I guess you could make your boot-up preset be empty. If you get used to that, then you'll always change presets after booting up

 

[bleujazz3]

Yeah, I guess you could make your boot-up preset be empty. If you get used to that, then you'll always change presets after booting up

Yeah, but where's the fun in that? Even I know my limitations, and that empty thing that needs filling is like my usual answer is..."Thanks, I'm good." Like I said, nipped. ( I put my John N. Cordy Brett Kingman Dumble preset at the boot-up.). Trust me, I need to look good in the morning, and it takes a while for most of us to wake up...