Volume Block vs. Output Block Level? / Setup

Lance Holland

Lance Holland

Inspired
For controlling via my expression pedal, I'm wondering what might be the advantage of using a volume block in the signal chain vs just controlling the level of the output block? Does it make a difference?

With that, how do others configure the parameter range for their volume control? I could see either going from zero to 10 or having the minimum position somewhere in between so that heel down is sending a normal level...but maybe your quietest level.
 
I place my exp pedal via volume block after the amp but before the verb/delay.
That way the FX are not cut off...I also let the pedal go to off on heel down which turns on the tuner.
I think some use the cab block for volume saving a block and dsp.
 
Depends on the goal / desired outcome.

Do you want to bring down the volume while also having the effect trails at the same level?

Do you want to lower the level to reduce overall drive (like using your guitar's volume knob)?

Do you want the entire signal to get quieter or louder?
 
unix-guy said:
Depends on the goal / desired outcome.

Do you want to bring down the volume while also having the effect trails at the same level?

Do you want to lower the level to reduce overall drive (like using your guitar's volume knob)?

Do you want the entire signal to get quieter or louder?
Click to expand...
The other consideration is when leveling presets and scenes. The Preset Leveling tool only allows adjusting the Amp block(s) and Out blocks. It's very convenient and controlling the level in other blocks was a PITA in comparison.

Wish Select block types used for leveling in Preset Leveling tool
 
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I prefer using the Volume block and usually have it right after the Cab block. Playing mainly P&W, there's more ambient tones so having the delay and reverb trails continue is important in that context.

I do have another expression pedal that can be used for increasing the volume further by attaching it to the Level parameter in whichever block makes sense for the scenario. I'll typically use the Cab block for solos though, for the simple reason of keeping track of the purpose of the different Level settings in my workflow.
 
Lance Holland said:
This is mainly about pushing levels for solos. I’m not too worried about trails as my delays / reverbs are short.
Click to expand...
For solos I've used the Amp Level, the Out block Level, and a GEQ, either adjusting using Scene controllers or separately setting them. The first two have issues with trails being affected. The third, because it can be placed where we want is nice and how it affects trails is up to us but it doesn't play nice with the leveling tool so I'd set it to +3.0 dB, then used the batch tool to make the editor sweep through the presets and change it to 3.5 when I decided that it should be a bit more. Scene controllers became a pain because everything is a percentage and, at the time, we didn't have the ability to make batch changes.

I also experimented with Control Switches, but those couldn't be adjusted with the leveling tool either.

I don't think there is a "best" way to manage solo boosts, there's just what works for you and how much pain you're willing to put up with when making a change. The wish I added above would help a lot but until it's implemented, if it is, we'll have to experiment and decide what we like.
 
[sorry...a bit of rambling here]

@Greg Ferguson (and others) I've found managing solo levels to be a bit of a challenge. I've settled into a single-patch setup where I have acoustic (using IRs), bandmaster clean, AC20 crunchy, and Trainwreck rock scenes. The scenes change via MIDI control from my iPad as we change songs in the sets. While I'm in a song, I have an effects layout displayed. Most of the time, stepping on a footswitch for a drive block is perfect for that extra push. But, I've run into situations where it wasn't quite loud enough to cut through or was jarringly loud. As much as I've tried dialing in these levels at rehearsal on the performance page; at the gig, I'm often surprised. Maybe it's the acoustics of the room....or it could be how our bandleader set our levels at sound check. And, as I'm using IEMs - which adds more complexity. So, rather than fight perfection, I'll just use an expression pedal to adjust levels on the fly.

My previous "all-in-one" patch used to have a stand-in switch mapped to a GEQ block at the end of the signal chain with a +3dB boost plus a little mid-hump. That worked reasonably well but not always. I'm finding that I can play most of the gig with the acoustic scene and Bandmaster scene (+ drive block). I've set up a second footswitch next to the drive footswitch to cycle through the drive block channels. That gives me enough flavors of dirt for the material. Adding the AC20 and Trainwreck scenes complicates things as there are more levels to deal with. Which kinda sucks as I really love the way those amp models clean up on the guitar's volume....but they also compress a lot rather than punch through.

I'll take that advice about moving the volume block after the cab. While trails aren't that significant for our music, it does seem to work smoother.

</ramble>

[edit - I just realized I posted this in the FM3 section and I've moved to the FM9. Old habits...]
 
Lance Holland said:
[sorry...a bit of rambling here]

@Greg Ferguson (and others) I've found managing solo levels to be a bit of a challenge. I've settled into a single-patch setup where I have acoustic (using IRs), bandmaster clean, AC20 crunchy, and Trainwreck rock scenes. The scenes change via MIDI control from my iPad as we change songs in the sets. While I'm in a song, I have an effects layout displayed. Most of the time, stepping on a footswitch for a drive block is perfect for that extra push. But, I've run into situations where it wasn't quite loud enough to cut through or was jarringly loud. As much as I've tried dialing in these levels at rehearsal on the performance page; at the gig, I'm often surprised. Maybe it's the acoustics of the room....or it could be how our bandleader set our levels at sound check. And, as I'm using IEMs - which adds more complexity. So, rather than fight perfection, I'll just use an expression pedal to adjust levels on the fly.

My previous "all-in-one" patch used to have a stand-in switch mapped to a GEQ block at the end of the signal chain with a +3dB boost plus a little mid-hump. That worked reasonably well but not always. I'm finding that I can play most of the gig with the acoustic scene and Bandmaster scene (+ drive block). I've set up a second footswitch next to the drive footswitch to cycle through the drive block channels. That gives me enough flavors of dirt for the material. Adding the AC20 and Trainwreck scenes complicates things as there are more levels to deal with. Which kinda sucks as I really love the way those amp models clean up on the guitar's volume....but they also compress a lot rather than punch through.

I'll take that advice about moving the volume block after the cab. While trails aren't that significant for our music, it does seem to work smoother.

</ramble>

[edit - I just realized I posted this in the FM3 section and I've moved to the FM9. Old habits...]
Click to expand...
Are you using the same irs with all the amps?
 
Good question. No. I have different IRs for the different scenes. I know this makes it more difficult to level but the amp tones sound more authentic with the properly matched cabinet.
 
I use the scene level sliders in the output block to level different scenes and boost solo. I look at the meter and balance other presets as closely as possible this way too.
 
I add a filter block with a slight bump at 2k and level set to +3 or +4 db. you can program your midi to send a cc to turn the block on/off with the with or without a scene change, and you can have assign the level of the filter block to the performance knobs for quick adjustment if it is too loud/soft.

As far as the volume pedal goes, I have mine assigned to global input, which acts like the volume knob on my guitar. I also have it display the tuner at heel down. This way I don't have to add a volume block to all presets, and it works the same way for all presets.
 
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