Vol Incr/Decr for Output2 and FXL Block

J

JazzMac251

Inspired
Short Version:
I know the Vol Incr/Decr function only works for Output 1, but is there a clever way to mimic this functionality with midi commands but apply it to Output 2 or the FXL block? Maybe something with Sysex Messages? I desperately need this.




Long Version:
As I've mentioned on the forums before, I do ambient-type guitarwork with an original artist. I run the Axe directly into the front of my amp via Output 2 (it has to be this way for complicated reasons), and I have a large number of FX situations saved as various presets that I recall with a midi controller. Because I'm layering a lot of different FX with varying gain levels, it can be extremely difficult to get my presets leveled. I tried using a dB meter to level everything out as suggested on the forums, but having everything the same volume isn't really appropriate since not every preset is played with the same dynamic.

I'm already using volume pedals to bring the SPL down on some sounds, but 1) a sweepable pedal is just too fine-grained for this situation, and 2) it doesn't make changes that can be saved. What I really need is a button or two that will let me permanently dial in the right dynamic range for each preset on-the-fly during rehearsals so things will at least be in the right ballpark. Then I can exercise fine-grained control with my volume pedals. This functionality already exists within the Axe as the Vol Incr/Decr commands, but only for Output 1. I cannot switch to using Output 1 because Output 1 is running my acoustic DI. I was really hoping there was something clever I could do with a series of midi commands that would replicate this functionality.

Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope.
 
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JazzMac251 said:
Short Version:
I know the Vol Incr/Decr function only works for Output 1, but is there a clever way to mimic this functionality with midi commands but apply it to Output 2 or the FXL block? Maybe something with Sysex Messages? I desperately need this.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if any controllers would allow this easily or at all. They'd have to step through a list of the different sysex commands for each dB value, followed by "save preset" (if this even exists as a small command) or consecutive vol inc & vol dec commands. The controller would also have to remember which command to step up/down from next time for that preset.

Is there a reason you can't use Out 1 for this, Out 2 for acoustic DI?
 
I've found some detailed info about AxeFX Sysex messages here:

MIDI SysEx - Axe-Fx II Wiki
Axe-Fx SysEx Documentation - Fractal Audio Systems Wiki
Axe-FX SysEx Messages

It seems at least theoretically possible to do what I'm looking to do. However, I don't see a way to send one message that tells the AxeFX to move a parameter up or down incrementally. In other words, it may be possible to cycle between a set number of specific values (-4dB, -2dB, 0dB, 2dB, 4dB), but it may not be possible to have one command that bumps up the volume 1dB per press and another command that bumps down the volume 1dB per press.

I wonder if there's a way to re-purpose the commands that Vol Incr/Decr uses. Hmm. Honestly, I'm kind of bumping up against the limits of my MIDI understanding at this point...
 
Bakerman said:
I'm not sure if any controllers would allow this easily or at all. They'd have to step through a list of the different sysex commands for each dB value, followed by "save preset" (if this even exists as a small command) or consecutive vol inc & vol dec commands. The controller would also have to remember which command to step up/down from next time for that preset.

Is there a reason you can't use Out 1 for this, Out 2 for acoustic DI?
Click to expand...

Yeah. I use my Axe with a signal router that's configured in a lot of different ways for a lot of different playing scenarios. I'm quite sure that a change like that would require hours of programming changes.

EDIT: Also, output 2 doesn't have XLR out which means I wouldn't be able to use the Axe as a direct box anymore
 
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Some reprogramming is probably the only solution if you want the inc/dec functions. Even if a controller allowed the sysex idea above, it would likely be many hours of work to program & test it.

For this scenario at least, you'd alter the Axe-FX presets and could then swap the Out 1 & 2 cables at one end (not both). Or if you prefer, accomplish the same thing by adjusting the router preset(s) used with these presets.
 
Switching the cables would mean swapping which output sends the acoustic guitar signal (to console a la direct box) and which sends the electric guitar signal (to guitar amp), right? Output 1 has to send the acoustic signal because it's the only output that has balanced XLR out. Any workaround that involves Output 1 sending the electric guitar signal is going to break my setup, I think. Plus, having to reprogram 30+ presets and program new router settings would likely take just as long as re-purposing the Vol Incr/Decr commands (if that's even possible).

Honestly, I don't see why there isn't a Vol Incr/Decr command for Output 2...oh. Wait. Yes I do. It just occurs to me that I don't think there is a mixer for Output 2. Damn...

For this to work, I think Cliff and Co. would have to build a new type of controller/modifier that has the same basic syntax as the Vol Incr/Decr command that could be attached to knobs like an LFO/ASDR/etc. You know, that would be a pretty sweet feature to have anyway, being able to ratchet up/down knobs incrementally, I mean. To control Output 2, at least the way I'm using my Axe, I would probably have to attach said hypothetical modifier to the main volume slider of the FXL block. I hope The Powers That Be are listening...
 
JazzMac251 said:
Switching the cables would mean swapping which output sends the acoustic guitar signal (to console a la direct box) and which sends the electric guitar signal (to guitar amp), right? Output 1 has to send the acoustic signal because it's the only output that has balanced XLR out. Any workaround that involves Output 1 sending the electric guitar signal is going to break my setup, I think. Plus, having to reprogram 30+ presets and program new router settings would likely take just as long as re-purposing the Vol Incr/Decr commands (if that's even possible).

Honestly, I don't see why there isn't a Vol Incr/Decr command for Output 2...oh. Wait. Yes I do. It just occurs to me that I don't think there is a mixer for Output 2. Damn...
Click to expand...

Yes, you'd have to deal with the acoustic as 1/4" from Out 2 somehow if you needed to connect to an XLR input.

There is a mixer for Out 2, in the FXL block when you're using it. The problem now is there's just no inc/dec command for its main level, like there is for Out 1 in the Layout: Mix page.

Another thing to consider that might make Out 1 inc/dec not very useful: it's per scene, so if you use multiple scenes with relative levels already as desired, you'd have to use the command on every scene to maintain that. With an Out 2 inc/dec that works the same way, the easiest solution might still be manually turning up the row (not main) level via front panel and saving.
 
Until Cliff decides to implement access to the +/- increments on the FXL block for output 2, wouldn't it be easier for now(hrs less programming work, if possible at all) to just buy a direct box or small mixer for output 2 and use the +/- increments of output 1 now. I know that in a live situation having a EXTRA direct box OR small mixer has come in VERY handy when something unexpected goes south, live. Just saying.
 
Use scene incr/decr.

Each scene would increase the volume by 1db. Use any block of your choice and increase the output level by 1db.

Turn off scene revert and should work
 
RoshRoslin said:
Use scene incr/decr.

Each scene would increase the volume by 1db. Use any block of your choice and increase the output level by 1db.

Turn off scene revert and should work
Click to expand...

This won't do what he seems to want, which is adjusting & storing level easily w/ switches at rehearsal.

You could set the FXL main level (not any block) to different levels per scene, but that just allows selecting a preset then temporarily adjusting level, if not using scenes for anything else. It won't save anything like volume inc/dec, and the next time you recall the preset you're at the original scene 1 (or whatever scene you make it load first) level.
 
Bakerman said:
This won't do what he seems to want, which is adjusting & storing level easily w/ switches at rehearsal.

You could set the FXL main level (not any block) to different levels per scene, but that just allows selecting a preset then temporarily adjusting level, if not using scenes for anything else. It won't save anything like volume inc/dec, and the next time you recall the preset you're at the original scene 1 (or whatever scene you make it load first) level.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is true.

I wonder if there is a "store" Sysex command. If there is, I could program a button on my Liquid Foot controller to use a step command that increases the FXL main slider by 2dB then sends a Sysex save command for each of the 4 available steps. I could do the same for for another button but in negative dB. That would at least get me in the ballpark of the Vol Incr/Decr command.
 
I got some info on the SysEx command for storing presets:

For II : f0 00 01 74 03 1d bank preset checksum f7

Unfortunately it looks like there isn't a single command that would apply to all presets. Double damn...
 
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