Virtual Capo/Pitch Algorithm Discussion Thread

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Intoodeep1113

Intoodeep1113

Inspired
The FW 5.00 Beeta1 Thread has become 90% discussion on the lack of virtual capo/pitch algorithm updates. I wanted to make this place for that discussion since it has made the beeta release thread become quite off topic and difficult to pick through any actual firmware beta issues. Fractal is kind enough to release Betas to the users to get some feedback on issues and bug reports.
 
They already mentioned the FM3 can't run the current FM9/Axe FX algorithm for the Pitch block, so unless they change the algorithm or make a new one that matches the other one to run with the resources of the FM3, which I hope they do, sounds like an amazing challenge, that is closed issue for now.
I was trying to use it to not have to used 2 guitars but at the end using a separate guitar sound better, I'm glad I have 2 guitars for this.

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Good thinking - but the ship has saled - no pitch update for FM3 users due to stated CPU limitations.
 
Lots of talk about this over here and at TGP (mostly me whining; both places). It's a big deal for many, MANY of us that somehow flew under the radar of FAS brass. It sucks that it turned out like it did, but it is what it is; FAS does the best job they can.

It's still usable in a full band context with overdrive/distortion and not doing anything too precise.

Haven't really decided personally if I'm going to keep the FM3; I was basically tolerating the FM3's VC thinking it was obviously going to be updated. Little did I know that there is DSP that controls how many blocks can run in the grid as well as DSP that determines if a block can even run on the firmware, and the improved pitch block was just too much for it.

Oh well. It's what I get for assuming :sweatsmile:
 
Intoodeep1113 said:
The FW 5.00 Beeta1 Thread has become 90% discussion on the lack of virtual capo/pitch algorithm updates. I wanted to make this place for that discussion since it has made the beeta release thread become quite off topic and difficult to pick through any actual firmware beta issues. Fractal is kind enough to release Betas to the users to get some feedback on issues and bug reports.
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Would probably have better luck abandoning the beta thread and starting a new one for feedback at this point...

I keep hopping in there hoping to find discussion of the new features (I'm a newer user and exploring myself is a far slower process at the moment), but those sorts of comments are just buried at this point.
 
chris said:
I think people are forgetting that the Axe3 processors are more powerful than the FM3’s. That doesn’t just mean fitting more things in the grid, but the speed and efficiency of the computations.
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Ugly Bunny said:
Little did I know that there is DSP that controls how many blocks can run in the grid as well as DSP that determines if a block can even run on the firmware, and the improved pitch block was just too much for it.
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I am not fully understanding this. The FM9 has the SAME processors as the FM3 (just more of them). So I don't think its that the processor itself can't handle it, unless there is something they are running on all 4 processors in the background. It doesn't seem that that is the way they handle processing on the FM3 or FM9 though. From what I read, they dedicate cores to certain functions IE modeling, delays, reverbs, everything else. I don't see it being a grid/block limitation either but I could be wrong.

Its interesting to speculate, but really only FAS knows the exact limitation and we are lucky to get as much geeky info shared with us as it is.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
Lots of talk about this over here and at TGP (mostly me whining; both places). It's a big deal for many, MANY of us that somehow flew under the radar of FAS brass. It sucks that it turned out like it did, but it is what it is; FAS does the best job they can.

It's still usable in a full band context with overdrive/distortion and not doing anything too precise.

Haven't really decided personally if I'm going to keep the FM3; I was basically tolerating the FM3's VC thinking it was obviously going to be updated. Little did I know that there is DSP that controls how many blocks can run in the grid as well as DSP that determines if a block can even run on the firmware, and the improved pitch block was just too much for it.

Oh well. It's what I get for assuming :sweatsmile:
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Even in a full band mix, it's (for me) almost unusable (and I get rolling eyes every time i use it) ;)
I play in drop C and had to use it to get 2 semitones down - play "fast" riffs and many notes are just being ignored and going under the bus.
The loss in highs and lows is another topic, but the huge latency and wobbly attack with the loss of notes playing fast is really hard to take.
Clean is worse - loud and with lots of delay and reverb "ok", but yeah - not good.

Like I wrote in the main thread, now after knowing that no update will come to safe the pitch, my Digitech Drop will get the job done.
Even the drop is far from perfect but better in every aspect compared to the pitch block 🥴✌️
 
I’ve got the axe fx 3 and the fm3. I’m not going anywhere from the Fractal ecosystem. I’m definitely an axe fx fanboy. I use the virtual capo on probably 12 songs in every gig. I picked up the fm3 to replace my Line6 Hx stomp for small and minimal geared gigs. It was a disappointment finding the fm3 virtual capo unusable. Which results in the fm3 not working out for that band I’m in. I do use the fm3 when I play with another group that doesn’t have to rely on changing keys so much.

The Hx stomp fairs better in its virtual capo than the fm3. It’s usable. Idk how much processing power the Hx stomp has but I figured it would have had less than the FM3.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
Lots of talk about this over here and at TGP (mostly me whining; both places). It's a big deal for many, MANY of us that somehow flew under the radar of FAS brass. It sucks that it turned out like it did, but it is what it is; FAS does the best job they can.

It's still usable in a full band context with overdrive/distortion and not doing anything too precise.

Haven't really decided personally if I'm going to keep the FM3; I was basically tolerating the FM3's VC thinking it was obviously going to be updated. Little did I know that there is DSP that controls how many blocks can run in the grid as well as DSP that determines if a block can even run on the firmware, and the improved pitch block was just too much for it.

Oh well. It's what I get for assuming :sweatsmile:
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The problem is your continued thinking it flew under the radar. It didn’t. They know people have been wanting it. I know for a fact they’ve been trying to port it based on them previously explaining this efforts. Currently they can’t. Does that mean forever? No. Does that mean ever? Also no. Who knows. But they definite did not ignore the issue
 
Stratoblaster said:
Thanks for doing this...I can only hope a moderator will migrate the discussions of the VC out of the beta thread and into here so as to keep that thread focused on technical issues pertinent to the release.
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Don't worry; there'll be a "beta 2" and the VC complainers (such as myself) will have burned ourselves out :)

ZSauce89 said:
The problem is your continued thinking it flew under the radar. It didn’t. They know people have been wanting it. I know for a fact they’ve been trying to port it based on them previously explaining this efforts. Currently they can’t. Does that mean forever? No. Does that mean ever? Also no. Who knows. But they definite did not ignore the issue
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Yes, it does mean never (Matt stated so quite emphatically). Doesn't mean it will never get any better, just that it won't ever get the Axe Fx III's algorithm. And Matt also very much stated that it flew under their radar. He specifically said that he wasn't aware it was that big of a deal to us. Of course, you're right; in the sense that they're always striving to improve things in general it didn't go under the radar, but as a priority and the primary wish/hope for obviously quite a few of us - that went under the radar. And the extreme lack of communication about it over the last year and a half since the Axe III got it was puzzling. People immediately started asking when it was coming to the (then very new) FM3 and there was not a whisper of an answer until December or late November that they were working on it, then Wednesday night when it was confirmed it would never happen.

Frankly, I'd be stoked if it got even incrementally better. Perhaps, when they have been working on it, they've been focusing on trying to port the Axe III's and maybe they'll figure something out unique to the FM3's architecture that can reduce latency and/or artifacts even just a little. I still have hope for this, but I very much doubt there's gonna be some miracle that suddenly makes it as good as the Axe III's. Fingers crossed.

MrPond said:
Even in a full band mix, it's (for me) almost unusable (and I get rolling eyes every time i use it) ;)
I play in drop C and had to use it to get 2 semitones down - play "fast" riffs and many notes are just being ignored and going under the bus.
The loss in highs and lows is another topic, but the huge latency and wobbly attack with the loss of notes playing fast is really hard to take.
Clean is worse - loud and with lots of delay and reverb "ok", but yeah - not good.
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Ah. I only ever use it at most 1 full step down and I never play anything fast/precise. Clean is just a soup sandwich through the VC lol.
 
Time will tell. Cliff appears to have made some new breakthroughs with non-linear modelling algorithms which could possibly reduce the CPU load needed by the amp and drive blocks. That could maybe in turn free up more resources for other features. We'll have to wait and see what these new algorithms can bring.
 
Get another guitar with different tuning guys :D I don't believe you, that you don't have another 10 guitars at home somewhere and that you play 10 different tunings in one song set.

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Ugly Bunny said:
And Matt also very much stated that it flew under their radar. He specifically said that he wasn't aware it was that big of a deal to us. Of course, you're right; in the sense that they're always striving to improve things in general it didn't go under the radar, but as a priority and the primary wish/hope for obviously quite a few of us - that went under the radar.
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It was posted in the wish forum twice, and locked both times, because they said 'we know'.

matt.jpg

And just to point something out, in his reply:

The wish was known and under consideration, but we really had to do "everything else" first before finally determining that it was out at this time. As for crickets, I say with the utmost respect for you and others with a wish, but the question did not rise high enough on my personal radar to the extent of triggering additional communications before now.
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The 'wish' was not under the radar. The need for additional communication was.
 
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Regardless of how "under the radar" the request was, FAS still tried to implement it but the FM3 is simply not powerful enough for the current algorithm. It seems that people are interpreting this to mean that if they knew how important it was to people, they would have worked harder to get it to work. Stick around long enough and you'll soon realize that they don't do things half donkey'd.

Now people can choose to remain butt-hurt over his "under the radar" comment and feel as though FAS doesn't care about them or the FM3 or they can choose to move on, knowing that FAS did everything that could at this point to make it work.
 
MrPond said:
And tubes amps are different how? ;)
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Redundancy.

I use my 2x12 combo amp as my stage speaker with my AX8, power amp in/speak sim off, output 1 to FOH with speak sim on. Fly gigs I take the AX8 and if we've got a few shows I'll usually end up renting a Hot Rod Deluxe or similar for the time we're there.

If the AX8 craps out, I can just use my 2x12 and be fine for the gig. If the amp craps out, FOH and house monitors.

If for some reason both crap out, a borrowed or backline amp is fine. I mean, playing a whole set with just a Fender Twin and nothing else would be an interesting experience, but we've done unplugged sets before, it would just be a bit mellower.

If all 3 of those things crap out, probably a sign that the show wasn't meant to be :tongueclosed:

We specifically take time at rehearsals to practice on backline gear and prepare for shit going wrong. I'm not saying that guy doesn't, but I can guarantee you I'd have a backup plan if suddenly I found myself in the middle of a show with no virtual capo.
 
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