Wish VHT/Fryette d60 mk1 model alongside mk2

[Dimi Guitar]

Yep the OD 2 one is the one that instantly reminded me of the VHT dryer and percussive tone , I prefer a bit more give so I futzed with the B+ and Sag a bit and that seemed to help

The splawn seems closer, for percusiveness, to the MKI deliverance sim.. than the MKII. Less big sounding, but it's probably the most percussive amp sim right now? Could be.

Comparatively, the MKII sim feels much more like a fart box... which don't get me wrong, I often like a looser, less percussive tone. That's part of why I like orange amps. Cygnus X3 finally brought the fart for rockeverb to where I'm loving the sim now. But I also have uses for much tighter tones in some scenarios. It varries.

The thing is: can it really be that the real MKII deliverance amps are this different to MKI? If that were the case, I'd imagine to be able to find uproar from some buying these newer amps. But didn't find much. Moreover, from interviews with Fryette himself, it doesn't appear that the differences should be this massive for distorted tones. At least that's my impression.

I've also now gotten some nam captures of real MKII.. and god damn do they sound and feel better than the new MKII sim. Way closer to what was easily achievable by the old sim.

So I can't help but wonder if there's some mistake in the modelling of this new sim. As we've seen before, that can happen. I imagine it's probably less likely in this case, provided its a new amp sim and likely got a lot of attention, but still.

Additionally, for us on fm3 only, we've had a jump from MKI deliverance to MKII, but at the same time we've come from Cygnus X2 to Cygnus X3. X3 may have made an additional difference.

Update: I see people had been talking about the MKII sim being less percussive even before X3 so wouldn't imagine that to be the issue.

 

[eloygperez]

Additionally, for us on fm3 only, we've had a jump from MKI deliverance to MKII, but at the same time we've come from Cygnus X2 to Cygnus X3. X3 may have made an additional difference.

100% here. It's not about Cygnus X3 modeling improvements. I remember updating from 24.03 to 24.04 (when MKII was introduced) with same results.

 

[Dimi Guitar]

100% here. It's not about Cygnus X3 modeling improvements. I remember updating from 24.03 to 24.04 (when MKII was introduced) with same results.

Do you have experience with the real amp heads by any chance btw? Just hard to imagine there being such a big difference with the actual amps.

Cygnus X3 for me improved the feel by a big margin for the amp sims I typically use. When I checked out the deliverance, I initially thought it's probably broken now like the diezel silver was at some point.

Then I realized the MKII version.

 

[eloygperez]

Do you have experience with the real amp heads by any chance btw? Just hard to imagine there being such a big difference with the actual amps.

Cygnus X3 for me improved the feel by a big margin for the amp sims I typically use. When I checked out the deliverance, I initially thought it's probably broken now like the diezel silver was at some point.

Then I realized the MKII version.

Yes for sure. I currently have 4 real amps in addition to the Axe FX III: 5150 Signature, VHT Pitbull 100CL, Bogner Uberschall Rev. Blue and Orange Rocker 30.

I have no experience with the real D60 (here Paul and his videos can offer a better perspective) so I can't verify if the fractal model sounds similar to the real thing but being really used to my VHT, the D60 MKI model had a similar but not the same character. They definitely shared a similar percussiveness and gnarly character that I really enjoyed so that's the reason I just used the fractal model.

Difference between 24.03 to 24.04 and 24.03 to 25.00 was pretty identical to me.

 

[eloygperez]

I remember updating from 24.03 to 24.04 and rolling back inmediately after playing with my D60 tones.haha
Due to the new improvements with Cygnus X3 I ended up updating but I still miss that D60 MKI model.

 

[Dimi Guitar]

Yes for sure. I currently have 4 real amps in addition to the Axe FX III: 5150 Signature, VHT Pitbull 100CL, Bogner Uberschall Rev. Blue and Orange Rocker 30.

I have no experience with the real D60 (here Paul and his videos can offer a better perspective) so I can't verify if the fractal model sounds similar to the real thing but being really used to my VHT, the D60 MKI model had a similar but not the same character. They definitely shared a similar percussiveness and gnarly character that I really enjoyed so that's the reason I just used the fractal model.

Difference between 24.03 to 24.04 and 24.03 to 25.00 was pretty identical to me.

I meant experience with the real deliverance MKI and MKII , but yea. I do not have much experience at all with the real fryette heads. But I have heard from people that pitbull is even tighter than deliverance MKI.

If all I used was the D60 models, I would go back to older firmware in a heartbeat. But everything else I use feels much, much better with X3. The difference may be even more meaningful for me than when Cygnus was first introduced. That makes me wonder how the MKI model would fare under X3.

 

[eloygperez]

I meant experience with the real deliverance MKI and MKII , but yea

Yeah, I remember reading "Do you have experience with real amp heads by any chance btw?" in your initial post.haha

But I have heard from people that pitbull is even tighter than deliverance MKI.

I never did a side by side comparison but 100CL is tight as fuck. It's not my main amp but I really love the tightness and percussiveness it offers especially on the green channel, the one I like the most.

About D60, I just liked the MKI model version so...why not have both if they are so different?

 

[holgar]

The VHT Pitbull 100CL has given me pleasure for a long time. A high gain amp of which you only needed one channel to be able to control all sounds from clean to full throttle with the guitar alone. I didn't even use the EQ. To be on the safe side, I bought a second one, this time from Fryette, and was very disappointed at how different it sounded.
In the videos shown, I would also prefer the old amplifier version in both cases. However, I would much rather have the old VHT Pitbull 100CL as a model ;-)

 

[Randalljax]

The splawn seems closer, for percusiveness, to the MKI deliverance sim.. than the MKII. Less big sounding, but it's probably the most percussive amp sim right now? Could be.

Comparatively, the MKII sim feels much more like a fart box... which don't get me wrong, I often like a looser, less percussive tone. That's part of why I like orange amps. Cygnus X3 finally brought the fart for rockeverb to where I'm loving the sim now. But I also have uses for much tighter tones in some scenarios. It varries.

The thing is: can it really be that the real MKII deliverance amps are this different to MKI? If that were the case, I'd imagine to be able to find uproar from some buying these newer amps. But didn't find much. Moreover, from interviews with Fryette himself, it doesn't appear that the differences should be this massive for distorted tones. At least that's my impression.

I've also now gotten some nam captures of real MKII.. and god damn do they sound and feel better than the new MKII sim. Way closer to what was easily achievable by the old sim.

So I can't help but wonder if there's some mistake in the modelling of this new sim. As we've seen before, that can happen. I imagine it's probably less likely in this case, provided its a new amp sim and likely got a lot of attention, but still.

Additionally, for us on fm3 only, we've had a jump from MKI deliverance to MKII, but at the same time we've come from Cygnus X2 to Cygnus X3. X3 may have made an additional difference.

Update: I see people had been talking about the MKII sim being less percussive even before X3 so wouldn't imagine that to be the issue.

I played around with the model last night to try and get close to the video that was posted above and even using a Bogner IR and LB2 curve
I could not get close to Blake’s tone in the vid , obviously different guitars and he uses a Suhr reactive load but if he is using a load and ir
It should be pretty close
I have heard Justin York clips with amps through a load box and the Axe through the same IR and it’s 99% a match

 

[Dimi Guitar]

About D60, I just liked the MKI model version so...why not have both if they are so different?

Considering how we got 74829292 Marshalls that sound and feel comparatively similar, at least for me, it makes sense having the MKI.. when the MK II is radically different...

.. Unless people think the sim is poop, but that's probably not the case for most. At worst, I'll run a tonex one through the fm3 loop if I need this tone in hardware lel. Atm nam smashes.

 

[cole lewis]

Have any of you guys took a look at the Savage models once you had this itch? That is likely the tightest model we have. The quick rod is dry and tight, however, not enough saturation imo.

 

[Dimi Guitar]

Have any of you guys took a look at the Savage models once you had this itch? That is likely the tightest model we have. The quick rod is dry and tight, however, not enough saturation imo.

True, they are very tight, but at the same time more "tube screamerish" (going by memory. I will check these out again for a more fresh impression). The MKI deliverance to my perception has this width and percusiveness that doesn't as much resemble the effect of a TS style pedal.

 

[cole lewis]

True, they are very tight, but at the same time more "tube screamerish" (going by memory. I will check these out again for a more fresh impression). The MKI deliverance to my perception has this width and percusiveness that doesn't as much resemble the effect of a TS style pedal.

Yeah I get what you mean about the Savage. The FAS br00talz model might be worth checking too. More scooped.

 

[Paul Bradshaw]

thanks for all the feedback so far and the discussion

i uploaded this video this week, comparing the new model to my 'OG 2005 VHT Deliverance, the same sort of differences between the two firmwares/models were there, i could however get the new model to sound pretty close, but it involved using the Output EQ as input (which i'm not sure really is the same as voicing) , and the juicy/saturation style wasn't quite the same, but from a sonic perspective definitely got close

whereas the older model it was just a case of input trim/gain being the main difference, here there are more things at play
and that influences the feel too, i've got the impression that the gain 1 in the mark2 is working differently than in the older version

anyhow i've also been spending a lot of time dialing in a new preset for the band, which has meant trying out different amps also to see what i could get, currently the quickrod od2-2 has the lead with a new IR , for tight/percussive tone but with some nice saturation , I'll try out the savage as well since that got mentioned here, haven't really used much ENGL in real life (recorded with a Blackmore amp way back when which was cool but different style of music) so i guess that's why i didn't really look at those

this is where i'm at currently with the quickrod:



-- -- --


the thing with the new d60 model and maybe this echoes what some people are thinking here, is that if you've spent 7-8 months or longer with a particular amp model and tweaking things down to the last sort of detail which is your main amp tone, only for a firmware to replace that same model that you've been working on for so long, it's back to the drawing board

i appreciate that i can roll back to an earlier firmware which is cool, but the other improvements/modelling + gapless simply outweighs it

hence this thread/wish =) thanks

 

[Randalljax]

thanks for all the feedback so far and the discussion

i uploaded this video this week, comparing the new model to my 'OG 2005 VHT Deliverance, the same sort of differences between the two firmwares/models were there, i could however get the new model to sound pretty close, but it involved using the Output EQ as input (which i'm not sure really is the same as voicing) , and the juicy/saturation style wasn't quite the same, but from a sonic perspective definitely got close

whereas the older model it was just a case of input trim/gain being the main difference, here there are more things at play
and that influences the feel too, i've got the impression that the gain 1 in the mark2 is working differently than in the older version

anyhow i've also been spending a lot of time dialing in a new preset for the band, which has meant trying out different amps also to see what i could get, currently the quickrod od2-2 has the lead with a new IR , for tight/percussive tone but with some nice saturation , I'll try out the savage as well since that got mentioned here, haven't really used much ENGL in real life (recorded with a Blackmore amp way back when which was cool but different style of music) so i guess that's why i didn't really look at those

this is where i'm at currently with the quickrod:



-- -- --


the thing with the new d60 model and maybe this echoes what some people are thinking here, is that if you've spent 7-8 months or longer with a particular amp model and tweaking things down to the last sort of detail which is your main amp tone, only for a firmware to replace that same model that you've been working on for so long, it's back to the drawing board

i appreciate that i can roll back to an earlier firmware which is cool, but the other improvements/modelling + gapless simply outweighs it

hence this thread/wish =) thanks

Not to further complicate but have you tried the Splawn Nitro that one has the KT88 and more low mids and satuaration
The QR sounds really good here but it is dry, reminds me a bit more of an ultra lead than deliverance

 

[Paul Bradshaw]

Not to further complicate but have you tried the Splawn Nitro that one has the KT88 and more low mids and satuaration
The QR sounds really good here but it is dry, reminds me a bit more of an ultra lead than deliverance

i used to own a nitro way back when, huge amounts of low end, cool amp

i did try the fractal nitrous model, but had more of an instant connection with the od2-2 and my guitar, i really liked the higher mid emphasis/voicing in the quickrod, i might try out a few more amps to see though

 

[Shon Kornfeld]

Ive used the Deliverance model as my main amp model for the last 12 years. A couple years back I bought 2 VHT-branded heads and use them into Suhr RL boxes into the Axe 3. Best of both worlds.

However, I too was upset with the "upgrade" to the v2 model. It sounded different enough to warrant having both, and the many years I've spent dialing in the preset were gone in 1 update. I tried to get the new model to sound the same, but couldn't get it where I wanted it.

Once the latest update with the new modeling came out, I thought I would give it another shot. I hooked up the A/B box and spent some time with it, and I feel much better about the latest modeling. I don't have them exact, in fact, I think PB has it more dialed in than I do after watching the video above, but they're close enough.

With all that said, consider this my vote for "yes, please include the v1 amp"

 

[Dimi Guitar]

Did some more testing. Turns out "d60 less" with gain and overdrive maxed out is much less of a fart machine.

Even setting the gain and overdrive relatively low with "d60 more" and adding TS pedal equals the mega fart. I was playing some Gilbert-picking style runs up high and it felt like there's a fuzz on the tone or something. Notes kept dying during fast runs.

That seems gone once I switch to "D60 less". It's as if the "D60 more" is like a fart switch I don't think that was the case with the MKI models, and it doesn't seem like simply a difference in gain levels.

 

[Dimi Guitar]

So I will try more tweaking with the "D60 less" specifically and see what I can come up with.

 

[Paul Bradshaw]

So I will try more tweaking with the "D60 less" specifically and see what I can come up with.

interesting, I'll give it a go as well with more extreme boosting, but i have a feeling the voicing will still have the same characteristics at higher gain

I'm pretty set on the quick rod atm in the meantime, the updated d60 model as it is no longer hits the mark