Versatility--PRS 509, 513 or.....Gibson Nighthawk

fcs101

Axe-Master
I love versatile guitars. I got turned onto the Gibson Nighthawk recently, but then discovered the PRS 509 and 513. I'm wondering if any of you folks have experience with these? One downside to the Nighthawks is that they are pretty much all nearing 30 years old (unless you can find an Anniversary reissue).
 
I prefer 509 to 513...

I have a 509 with a swamp ash body, maple neck, maple fretboard...
It is a beast! Before that, I had a 509 with a mahogany body and neck and a rosewood or ebony fretboard. It sounded great, but was a whole different flavor.
 
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I love versatile guitars. I got turned onto the Gibson Nighthawk recently, but then discovered the PRS 509 and 513. I'm wondering if any of you folks have experience with these? One downside to the Nighthawks is that they are pretty much all nearing 30 years old (unless you can find an Anniversary reissue).
I will second the PRS 509 recommendation. It’s like a super flexible Strat with some major humbucker foo. I was blown away by how well it’ll rock and then turn around and sound jazzy or country. It’s a true workhorse.

Another guitar that is similar that I love just as much is the PRS Custom 22 Semihollow. It sits on the humbucker/ES-335 side of the fence but has some great Strat sounds. It’s got a gorgeous sound, fattens up very nicely, and is light and comfortable to play all night. I find I need to reduce the gain a bit, not because it has hot pickups, but because, being semi-acoustic, it definitely warms up when the air is moving. It’s not a bad thing, it’s just a thing.

And another that few people seem to know about is the Studio guitar. It’s more an SSH design, but the neck and middle pickups are the PRS Narrowfield humbuckers, which get surprisingly Strat-like when turned down and sound like P-90s when cranked. They really balance well with the humbucker at the bridge, which can be tapped. It’s not as expensive as the 509 or 513 but is also very flexible.

I tried to find a 513 but they are hard to locate. The 509 has proven to be a great guitar and I definitely don’t regret buying it. I’d gladly buy another if something happened to this one. Heck, I’d rebuy each of these.
 
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I prefer 509 to 513...

I have a 509 with a swamp ash body, maple neck, maple fretboard...
It is a beast! Before that, I had a 509 Ruth a mahogany body and neck and a rosewood or ebony fretboard. It sounded great, but was a whole different flavor.
What is it about the 509 that grabs you over the 513? Playability, tone, or something else? Thanks.

I saw that the 513 was discontinued for the 509 which (according to Paul) is sort of a merger of the 513 and another model which escapes me.
 
Whats the likelihood you’ll actually use most or all of the switching options available? A regular PRS S shape already has a blade switch and you could wire two push/pulls for even more combos for a couple extra bucks and some time.

Not implying you wont use said options, but if you end up using 5 of 13, then might as well get something with those 5 off the hop if that makes sense.

Signed,

Doesnt use the push/pulls on any of his PRS (they dont sound bad I just dont need them - got a tele and JM)
 
Whats the likelihood you’ll actually use most or all of the switching options available? A regular PRS S shape already has a blade switch and you could wire two push/pulls for even more combos for a couple extra bucks and some time.

Not implying you wont use said options, but if you end up using 5 of 13, then might as well get something with those 5 off the hop if that makes sense.

Signed,

Doesnt use the push/pulls on any of his PRS (they dont sound bad I just dont need them - got a tele and JM)
I have a Kiesel w/ push/pull that I use constantly, so probability is very high. Thanks for the insight though.
 
I had a 509 wood library with Korina back, Maple top, Maple Neck and Ebony fretboard. I tried to really like it but I didn't bond with the humbucker bridge. I play mostly classic rock and live 90% on the bridge humbucker. It just felt to weak for me. I know in the Fractal world there's like a million ways of boosting inputs and drive and stuff to compensate but then that causes other balancing issues. I even contemplated routing out the wood for the bridge so I could fit a normal humbucker bridge in there and keep the rest of the setup. Maybe a different wood combination would have been better for me. To me it feels like the 509 is awesome if you're mostly a single-coil player of sometimes venture into humbucker land. This is opposed to say a 408 (I have the Signature Limited that was the model the 408 was based on, same pickups but 3 way switch instead of 3 way blade) that's much more a humbucker guitar that can also do a decent single coil sound. I also have custom 22 with the 85/15 TCI pickups with the 3 way switch and mini switches to split the pickups and I found they do decent enough single coil sounds.

Anyway, In the end I think you're just have to give it a go if you think you'll like it :)
 
I have a Kiesel w/ push/pull that I use constantly, so probability is very high. Thanks for the insight though.
Good stuff. I dont suppose there are any you can try close by?

My tech has (had?) a 513 but I havent checked it out. Maybe next visit.

If either model has wide fat/pattern necks, that gets my vote.
 
Good stuff. I dont suppose there are any you can try close by?

My tech has (had?) a 513 but I havent checked it out. Maybe next visit.

If either model has wide fat/pattern necks, that gets my vote.
I live in a pretty populous area so I might be able to try one.
I just prefer the 509 pickup voicing. 509 is 408 switching with a middle pickup. However, the pickups are totally different from a 408 bridge and neck.
Cool. Yeah I think maybe the 408 is the model I couldn't think of above that Paul said the 509 was basically a merger of the 513 with that.
 
I love versatile guitars. I got turned onto the Gibson Nighthawk recently, but then discovered the PRS 509 and 513. I'm wondering if any of you folks have experience with these? One downside to the Nighthawks is that they are pretty much all nearing 30 years old (unless you can find an Anniversary reissue).
Have you played the Nighthawk? I had the Epiphone version for about 5 minutes. Sounded cool, nice tone options, but too physically unbalanced to be comfortable, returned it. No idea if the Gibson has that issue.
 
Have you played the Nighthawk? I had the Epiphone version for about 5 minutes. Sounded cool, nice tone options, but too physically unbalanced to be comfortable, returned it. No idea if the Gibson has that issue.
No, I haven't played one. I recently started looking and then noticed that PRS had some with the same basic config.

Did it have bad neck dive? The body looks smaller and lighter than an LP.
 
Did it have bad neck dive?
That's one thing I've only seen on one PRS. The original Santana model was difficult to balance when sitting or standing, and I walked away from that model. Every other model I have sits and hangs beautifully.

I saw that the 513 was discontinued for the 509 which (according to Paul) is sort of a merger of the 513 and another model which escapes me.
That was the "decidenator" for me. I'm not one for all the settings that the 513 had. Years ago, when I was doing guitar repair, the owner of the shop built a guitar similar to the 513 and got lots of sounds from it, but I thought too many of them were not what I'd want to use.

I use every sound of the 509 because they're all very mainstream, either Strat or Les Paul-type sounds. I tend to leave it in an SSH configuration but switch the neck to humbucking occasionally just because.
 
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I tried to really like it but I didn't bond with the humbucker bridge. I play mostly classic rock and live 90% on the bridge humbucker. It just felt to weak for me.
I was talking to the factory folks, and the neck and bridge pickups can be damaged by raising the height too much if the wires are pinched against the side of the cavity. The neck pickup on mine seems to have lost output, so it's at PRS currently to have them look at it and figure out what's up. The bridge pickup on mine is definitely not weak sounding though, it'll scream, as did the neck prior to its "illness". So, if you bought yours used, or adjusted the height, there's a chance one of the wires got damaged. I'm really looking forward to getting it back because it definitely can rock out on all pickups.
 
I will second the PRS 509 recommendation.

I triple the recommendation coming from a 513 owner. I like my 513, it's a great swiss army knife, but the 509 has a hint more to offer so that's in the backlog of "can I really afford another PRS"....

But... I really have my eyes on the Ibanez TQM-1 as well, it's just a beautifully crafted shredder.

Proof of ownership and admission of goofiness:
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I was talking to the factory folks, and the neck and bridge pickups can be damaged by raising the height too much if the wires are pinched against the side of the cavity. The neck pickup on mine seems to have lost output, so it's at PRS currently to have them look at it and figure out what's up. The bridge pickup on mine is definitely not weak sounding though, it'll scream, as did the neck prior to its "illness". So, if you bought yours used, or adjusted the height, there's a chance one of the wires got damaged. I'm really looking forward to getting it back because it definitely can rock out on all pickups.
I bought mine new but definitely tried to adjust pickup height. It didn’t sound broken but given this maybe it can’t be ruled out. It sounded weak compared to say the 85/15s that are my favourite standard size PRS pickups, the 408 bridge and the Bareknuckle Mules I have in my 594.

If one shows up in more traditional woods, mahogany back and neck, and rosewood fretboard maybe I should give a 509 another go.
 
I bought mine new but definitely tried to adjust pickup height. It didn’t sound broken but given this maybe it can’t be ruled out. It sounded weak compared to say the 85/15s that are my favourite standard size PRS pickups, the 408 bridge and the Bareknuckle Mules I have in my 594.
That's what mine was doing too. It worked, and the pickup split switch worked, but it didn't have the output it should have. What confirmed to me there was a problem was when I rolled down the tone control to 0, and the neck pickup's output dropped to nothing even though the volume was at 10, but the other pickups sounded as they should, darker but with a lot of output volume.

I got confirmation from PRS this morning that the pickup on mine does need to be replaced, so, hopefully, it'll be on its way home by next week. I'm not happy I had to send it in, but, all in all, working with PRS support has been fine and if I ever need to send in a guitar for a similar situation I'll be less nervous. I'm in Arizona, so shipping added some delay, but both repair shops I use locally are running about three-month backlogs, so sending it to PRS has actually been the faster path to getting it fixed.
If one shows up in more traditional woods, mahogany back and neck, and rosewood fretboard maybe I should give a 509 another go.
I don't seek the eye candy that their maple caps tend to have, but I do want the mahogany body and neck, maple cap, and rosewood fingerboard. That said, this one has grown on me…

IMG_0196.jpeg
 
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No, I haven't played one. I recently started looking and then noticed that PRS had some with the same basic config.

Did it have bad neck dive? The body looks smaller and lighter than an LP.
Yeah neck dive, bad. At first I thought I could deal with it, but actually no, it was a pita I just didn't need. Too bad, fun guitar otherwise, if a bit of an import cheapie, but that's what it was, so no complaints in that score.
 
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