Valve power amps?

F

fsharpminor

Inspired
plugged my axe fx into the return of my mesa mark iv and it felt so much better than the SS poweramps (sd, matrix etc) I've been using. Any suggestions for a small valve power amp. Its for stage monitoring only. Output 1 goes direct to FOH.
 
Budda said:
Might be a bit hard to find a few tube power amps that are 1U. Have you also checked out the Orange pedalbaby?

Also wattage wont determine volume as much as it will how it handles the signal and how long it stays clean for.
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Havent tried the orange, i have tried the matrix and the SD powerstage....they were ok, but a valve power amp ffom my mark iv sounded and felt a lot better.
 
Some things come to mind:
  • Be careful with smaller tube amps like the 20/20 when used for this purpose because they will distort when pushed hard, Mesa markets that as a feature. A 20 watt tube power-amp is equivalent to a Fender Deluxe, and sounds great when pushed, and won't be unbearably loud, but we want that distortion.
  • Reducing the output of a 20 watt amp to 10 watts will help clear it up, but the available clean volume will drop by 6db. That's pretty apparent.
  • Modelers need extremely clean power-amps if you want the modeler to do what it's good at. Of course you could turn off power-amp modeling and rely on the tube power-amp to supply that backend distortion, but it won't change to sound like the original amp when you switch models, only that model's preamp into your given tube power-amp. And, if you're only using the power-amp with your stage monitors, the sound you send to FOH will not be the same.
  • The sound of a distorting tube power-amp into stage monitors isn't very pleasant because stage monitors have a lot higher frequency response than regular guitar cabinets. I'd use a pair of small 10" or 12" cabs loaded with good guitar speakers instead.
fsharpminor said:
doesnt need to be too loud....50 watts top
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50 watts is only 3db-ish louder than 20 watts when running clean. That's the difference between our normal cruising volume and when we step on a solo boost; It's not very much. Adding wattage for a tube amp means adding a lot more weight and size for the transformers and capacitors, and tube cost is going up fast, something to be aware of these days. That last point makes me really happy I have my Fractals because I've sidestepped that rapid tube-cost increase.

sprint said:
I don't have one but Synergy 5050 or Fryette LXII gets many good reviews around here.
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The 5050 bridged in mono would be good, or the LXII in stereo. I wouldn't go with anything less than 100 watts if I wanted clean reproduction on stage that matches FOH.

My Imperial combo is 20 watts when wide open, which is how I use it, and I stand about 3-4 feet in front of it with it pointed at my head so it acts as my own monitor and room sound. It's comfortably loud but the power-amp is definitely overdriving at that point, which is why I'd hesitate to use 50 watts for reproducing a modeler's output cleanly. 50 watts will only improve clarity a little before distorting. 100 watts will add 6db which would be a comfortable cushion I think.
PS - Actually I think I was off on my DB to wattage changes needed. +3db requires 10x the power, which makes it that much more difficult to get usable volume differences when running cleanly.
 
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Greg Ferguson said:
Some things come to mind:
  • Be careful with smaller tube amps like the 20/20 when used for this purpose because they will distort when pushed hard, Mesa markets that as a feature. A 20 watt tube power-amp is equivalent to a Fender Deluxe, and sounds great when pushed, and won't be unbearably loud, but we want that distortion.
  • Reducing the output of a 20 watt amp to 10 watts will help clear it up, but the available clean volume will drop by 6db. That's pretty apparent.
  • Modelers need extremely clean power-amps if you want the modeler to do what it's good at. Of course you could turn off power-amp modeling and rely on the tube power-amp to supply that backend distortion, but it won't change to sound like the original amp when you switch models, only that model's preamp into your given tube power-amp. And, if you're only using the power-amp with your stage monitors, the sound you send to FOH will not be the same.
  • The sound of a distorting tube power-amp into stage monitors isn't very pleasant because stage monitors have a lot higher frequency response than regular guitar cabinets. I'd use a pair of small 10" or 12" cabs loaded with good guitar speakers instead.

50 watts is only 3db-ish louder than 20 watts when running clean. That's the difference between our normal cruising volume and when we step on a solo boost; It's not very much. Adding wattage for a tube amp means adding a lot more weight and size for the transformers and capacitors, and tube cost is going up fast, something to be aware of these days. That last point makes me really happy I have my Fractals because I've sidestepped that rapid tube-cost increase.


The 5050 bridged in mono would be good, or the LXII in stereo. I wouldn't go with anything less than 100 watts if I wanted clean reproduction on stage that matches FOH.

My Imperial combo is 20 watts when wide open, which is how I use it, and I stand about 3-4 feet in front of it with it pointed at my head so it acts as my own monitor and room sound. It's comfortably loud but the power-amp is definitely overdriving at that point, which is why I'd hesitate to use 50 watts for reproducing a modeler's output cleanly. 50 watts will only improve clarity a little before distorting. 100 watts will add 6db which would be a comfortable cushion I think.
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thanks for the tip.....i will bear this in mind.
 
I have both the Fryette PS 2 and Fryette LXII. Both are great.

If you are just running mono the PS2 is hard to be on the used market. It is also one of the best power attenuators I have used (I have tried several). It is also versatile and I like it with my old AC-30 to tame the volume and if I need an effects loop which the AC-30 does not have.

While the PS is not 1U (it is more like 1.5U) it fits in tight places in my rack that would normally fits 1U. It also is lighter than my LXII although it is not too heavy.
 
fsharpminor said:
Quick question do you leave power amp modeling on or off....sounded better trough my mark power amp when it was left on?
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Thats subjective, you should decide for yourself. Ive tried both and they are differenjt flavours of chocolate. I like milk chocolate and others like dark.
 
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