Using the VU meter to balance volume among presets

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chris

Owner's Manual Reader
Hey guys,

I just finished a quick stream on Twitch helping someone with a few questions. One of the topics was balancing volume among different presets, and I created a highlight showing this section. This was recorded in realtime and doesn't have any edits for mistakes or reducing time, so just keep that in mind :)

If you like this, be sure to create a Twitch account (or login with Facebook) and FOLLOW my channel using the Follow/Heart button under the video player. You can then be notified when I go live in the future, and you can also participate in the chat to have your questions answered, or just hang out with everyone else.

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Well... I think relying on VU meters while leveling presets volume is not exactly a good idea. VU readings of a given preset depends on which frequency range is dominant in its tone and above all - how you play. I have tried a couple of times to level my presets this way, but using VU meters in DAW (because of a peak hold option not present in Axe-Fx's VU meters). Never got satisfactory results.

As long as preset is tonally balanced and the midrange is dominant, there's not much of a difference in VU readings whether you play an open chords or palm muted powerchords. But in heavier tones with more low-end, the differences in VU readings between open chords and palm muted powerchords are quite big, reaching 6 dBs or sometimes even more. What will you do then, if you restrict yourself to relying on VU readings only?

In my opinion relying on VU meters when leveling volumes of presets could be helpful only to get into the ballpark. The finetuning still should be done by ear, I cannot see any other way to get fully satisfactory results.
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
Hey guys,

I just finished a quick stream on Twitch helping someone with a few questions. One of the topics was balancing volume among different presets, and I created a highlight showing this section. This was recorded in realtime and doesn't have any edits for mistakes or reducing time, so just keep that in mind :)

I can't embed the player here, so please click the link below to see the video on my Twitch channel. If you like this, be sure to create a Twitch account (or login with Facebook) and FOLLOW my channel using the Follow/Heart button under the video player. You can then be notified when I go live in the future, and you can also participate in the chat to have your questions answered, or just hang out with everyone else.

Using the VU meter to balance preset levels
Click to expand...

Hey Chris,

Not sure if the issue is on my end but it's not streaming well. Keeps stopping.
 
kavoo said:
WVU readings of a given preset depends on which frequency range is dominant in its tone and above all - how you play.
Click to expand...

The VU Meters in Utility aren't simple level indicators.

Cliff: "ITU-R is a standard for loudness measurement. Broadcasters use it to monitor the apparent loudness of program material and comply with regulations, i.e. making sure commercials aren't louder than the programming. The measurement includes a simple head model and hearing perception model to give a fairly accurate indication of relative volume."

In my experience the VU meters do a remarkable job, far better than when using a decibel meter.
 
yek said:
The VU Meters in Utility aren't simple level indicators.
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Maybe they aren't, but they still showing different loudness levels in some presets, depending how do you play (open chords or thick palm muting).
 
kavoo said:
but they still showing different loudness levels in some presets, depending how do you play (open chords or thick palm muting).
Click to expand...

Of course they do. Otherwise would be no dynamics in music.
 
That's exactly my point. And that's why I think simple relying on VU meters is not an ultimate solution and should be backed by what you hear.

Quick example:



How would you set the volume in this preset, relying on VU meters only? If you'll set the volume for open chords, the palm muted playing will sound too loud in the mix. If you'll set the volume for palm muting, open chords will sound quiet in the mix. That's why in my opinion your ears should be the ultimate volume indicator.

Of course using VU meters is great way to level your presets, but only for practicing/showcase purposes. If you play various songs in the band, setting the proper preset volumes can be done only by ear, when you hear what you play in a specific context. In my humble opinion of course.
 
Not sure anyone said that the VU meters were to be relied on. They are a tool in a toolbox. No more than a screwdriver won't build a house but try building one without. I find the VU meters an awesome, long awaited feature that smacks of getting it right. Your ears are always the final judge but there is a reason they call it 'perceived loudness'.
 
The loudness meter in the Fractal works great for me.

Since using them, no surprises at rehearsals or shows. The thing is simple and just works.
 
kavoo said:
If you'll set the volume for open chords, the palm muted playing will sound too loud in the mix. If you'll set the volume for palm muting, open chords will sound quiet in the mix. That's why in my opinion your ears should be the ultimate volume indicator.
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The VU meter doesn't compress things or make them even, they just show how loud things are.

Palm muting is usually louder than open chords. So VU meter or not, that "problem" will always be there. Reduce bass frequencies if the lows get too loud when you palm mute.

I'm not sure how your ears are any different than a meter with that issue. You'd still have to adjust the tone to balance open chords vs palm muting. At least with the meter, you can see the difference and results of adjusting the lows.

Remember, that line is just some arbitrary point. It's up to your brain to decide where you want a preset volume to be, relative to that point. Set the average lower or higher than that line to be lower or higher than other presets you set to that line. It's up to you. The meter just shows you what is going on, visually.

As for the video, let me export it to YouTube; it's a better player.
 
kavoo said:
I have tried a couple of times to level my presets this way, but using VU meters in DAW (because of a peak hold option not present in Axe-Fx's VU meters).
Click to expand...
Would be nice to have a peak hold in the VU meters ... maybe just have them clear automatically after a second or 2 based on an internal envelope setting, IE when you shut up they'll clear after a short pause ..... but maybe that's a little over the top for what's supposed to be a ballpark setting utility.
 
yek said:
The VU Meters in Utility aren't simple level indicators.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I've compared the results of the Axe meter to a setup using the Orban Loudness Meter. The results were nearly identical.

For the Orban setup, I used:

[Guitar]->-[AxeFX II]->-[A&H MixWiz with EQ set flat]->-[QSC KW115]->-[AKG C3000]->[Presonus AudioBox USB]->-[Laptop running Orban Loudness Meter]
 
Yep. Play open then play hard palm mutes and then split the difference. There's no substitute for doing your final tweaks by ear in the context of your band mix. The VU meters help you get you to a much more level playing field between presets. No it's not perfect, but it will get you within a few db's in most cases. For the purpose of ensuring proper headroom for presets, the VU meter is invaluable.
 
I use it as a matter of course to set the ballpark level for all of my presets. Big, bottom-ended chugs like those coming from, say, a USIIC++ can 'bloom' out to +6db or more so the bass has to be watched and considered. But otherwise, it's an essential tool for me and a priority utility when writing patches for stage.
 
How do you get your signals all even in the VU meter? Whenever I use it the left and right signals are usually uneven and the outputs 1&2 are at different levels on the meter. I rarely see the even balance that both video's displayed
 
Panning on the grid will determine the Left to Right balance. Out 1 and 2 are independent so unless you have Output 2 Echo set to Output 1 in the I/O menu Audio page, those output levels will have to be set separately.
 
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