Using the AxeFX Live.. Direct into FOH vs mic'd tube amp

[luitanent_dan]

Just wondering how u use your axefx live?

I can't decide whether it will sound better running my axefx into my vox ac15 with an sm57 on it, or running directly from the axefx into the FOH?

Any opinions?

Also, how do u eq your tones on the axefx when playing live? Ie. Do you get rid of most stuff below 2k so it sits nicely in the mix, or do u let the sound tech sort that out at the sound desk?

 

[browlett]

Personally, I've always run mine direct FRFR every time live and it's been great. I don't miss the days of dealing with mics moving a little while I'm on stage, crappy sound men who don't know what they're doing, and the fact that you can almost never get your mic'ed up traditional rig to sound consistently the same every show.

Going direct guarantees that you'll always sound the same. If you get a good sound going, that's a great thing.

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

I've never had a soundman I can rely on so I go line-in and tell the soundman to do nothing and I seem to get a lot of compliments on the tone. You never get enough time micing a real cab properly and ever though you do it's still leaking stuff on the stage like bass resonance etc. Going line-in will give you a studio quality sound for live purposes. What more do you want?

 

[Andyhickman]

I've always been a bit hesitant for using my axe FOH because of inconsistancy in the quality of the equipment the venues I play at and also because I've never been truely happy with my FRFR tone. I personally have found it much easier to get the live sound I like through a real cab. But thats just me and my frfr tweaking skills needing development.

 

[mark_melling]

I guess it boils down to you..what you put into it you will get out of it! If you spend enough time developing
your tone through the Ax it will likely be all you need..if not, or you just cant get what your looking for, then
micing your Vox will be the way to go for you.

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

Also you've got to decide what's more important to you: You liking your tone at rehearsals/on stage OR The crowd liking your tone at gigs. Sure these can happen at the same time but if you make your tones with let's say a tube power amp and a cab and you decide to use line-in FOH then the tone will probably not work in the same way with IRs. Then again the tone you get in the room won't sound the same even though you mic your real life cabinet. Sure you can have patches with parallel settings like AMP1 goes to your power amp+cab and AMP2 goes FOH.

Still this is all so complicated... you'll waste your precious time in stupid complicated tweaking and I bet you'll spend more time tweaking a sound that's just for your own rehearsals/live monitoring. I don't know if it's just me who thinks that it's a waste of time. Like having an imaginary tone that only you hear. It's a waste of time sort of like hanging on forums all day... oops. :lol:

Anyways I like things simple and I promise you'll like it too. It's more of a psychological thing if you've been playing real guitar amps for years and suddenly only using digital gear. Especially when Line6 failed so badly before that people like to think the Axe-Fx is just like Line6.

 

[michl_666]

Just wondering how u use your axefx live?

FRFR and through a tube amp (but not at the same time). Both works. I like FRFR more because of the flexibility.

Also, how do u eq your tones on the axefx when playing live? Ie. Do you get rid of most stuff below 2k so it sits nicely in the mix, or do u let the sound tech sort that out at the sound desk?

Normally all my presets are set up that all freq below ~100Hz and above ~7000Hz are cut. Sometimes a bit additional Global EQ if necessary (i.e. too boomy). No idea what you mean by below 2k. Must be a typo? Maybe you like a real screaming saw-like sound?

You could set it up like this
- FRFR through Out1 --> FOH
- no cabs through Out2 (with a send-block before the cabs) --> AC15 --> Mic --> FOH
If you get 2 separate channels on the desk, you could easily switch and decide on your own, what you like more and if you want to tweak a bit further ... :mrgreen: ... or use the AC15 just as your personnel monitor ... who knows?

Much luck and have fun! It's a journey.

 

[browlett]

I've always been a bit hesitant for using my axe FOH because of inconsistancy in the quality of the equipment the venues I play at

Well, think of it this way... If you mic up a traditional cabinet in those same venues, you're STILL dealing with that "inconsistancy in the quality of the equipment". So, you'll still have that problem. PLUS, you're also adding in the need to mic your amp up correctly, consistently, and everything else. If you go direct (FRFR) in those same places, at least you know that the signal that heads to the sound board will be exactly what you like and exactly what you have set up for yourself. Of course, that assumes that you get it to sound good direct. This brings me to the rest of what you said:

...and also because I've never been truely happy with my FRFR tone. I personally have found it much easier to get the live sound I like through a real cab. But thats just me and my frfr tweaking skills needing development.

Your skills tweaking for FRFR and the related issues can all be corrected. Read what others here do. Ask questions. Download patches that other people create and try them out.

Furthermore, remember something else. Even though you're happy with your present live sound with your "real" cabinet, are you sure that that same sound is translating to the audience out front? Keep in mind that your cabinet has a mic in front of it and it's aimed in one direction. Most times, what you hear on stage with your traditional amp & cabinet is very different from what comes out of the PA system and makes its way to the ears in the crowd. Depending on where someone in the audience will stand, they'll hear something totally different. Standing right in front of it, they'll get blasted with volume and hear more of the high end of your sound. Moving to the side more, they'll hear more low end and may not hear your guitar at all. Plus the sound that the microphone captures will depend greatly on the mic, the type of mic, how it was set up, etc. The signal that comes out of that mic and goes to the sound board can be a real spin of the roulette wheel. Going FRFR eliminates all of this. You get consistent sound. It will sound more "the same" around the room. You can totally change everything right from your Axe Fx. I can't imagine EVER running my Axe Fx through a traditional guitar cabinet and putting a mic in front of it again.

 

[TheOtherDave]

Sometimes a bit additional Global EQ if necessary (i.e. too boomy).

I've recently begun experimenting with a multi-band compressor to fix this. The idea being that you still get all the lows normally, but when you start chugging the MBC kicks in and tames them (I tried it with the highs, as well... that guitar player likes it bright!). I like what I've heard so far, but I've only done it once, so take it with an appropriate amount of salt.

 

[vicknott]

[quote="luitanent_dan":2ybgp0cf]Just wondering how u use your axefx live?

FRFR and through a tube amp (but not at the same time). Both works. I like FRFR more because of the flexibility.

Also, how do u eq your tones on the axefx when playing live? Ie. Do you get rid of most stuff below 2k so it sits nicely in the mix, or do u let the sound tech sort that out at the sound desk?

Normally all my presets are set up that all freq below ~100Hz and above ~7000Hz are cut. Sometimes a bit additional Global EQ if necessary (i.e. too boomy). [/quote:2ybgp0cf]

How do you do it ? PEQ - blocking or somethin else ? What adjustements do you usually do on Global EQ ? Thanks.

 

[Casper]

You should be prepared for both.

I almost always use Axe-fx direct to mixer when there is a good sound system installed. The Axe-fx has its own rack bag, and then I have a bag for my All-Access. Its real easy to tote around - can carry everything, including guitar, in one trip.... ultra portable.

If I am relying on Cabs, the ultra-portability idea kind of gets lost. I can use Axe-Fx but currently its easier for me to just use my old system because it is already wired up for this in its own rack and its tuned for use with a tube power amp. Separately, I have a rack with Triaxis, JMP-1, G-Force, and VHT 2502. This usually goes to two EV TL806 loaded with Delta Pros. Power is thru a Furman. If you think about it, this setup is only one extra rack space more (or the same if I take out one preamp) than if I were using Axe-fx with cabs. It just saves me hassle of swapping the Axe in/out to maintain the grab and go portability of my FOH setup.

I use common preset layout and control layout with the All-Access so switching back and forth between systems is not really an issue.

If I didn't have the other system already (starting from scratch), I would probably try buying an ART SL-2 and use the the Axe-Fx for everything (both direct and cabs). I would still want to have some back-up system available. Maybe I would want 2 Axe-Fxs and 2 SLA-2s?

 

[northtrader]

Personally, I've always run mine direct FRFR every time live and it's been great. .........the fact that you can almost never get your mic'ed up traditional rig to sound consistently the same every show.
Going direct guarantees that you'll always sound the same. If you get a good sound going, that's a great thing.

Going line-in will give you a studio quality sound for live purposes. What more do you want?

So, what are you guys using for "amplification/listening environment" at home when you create your presets?

I don't disagree with your experience about consistency of tone through direct-to-the board setups but one thing I have found elusive is matching the FOH environment with a reasonably equivalent "home listening/preset creation" environment. I agree that the tone is fairly consistent through various FOH environments but the one area that I'm still searching for is the "what I hear at home is pretty much what I hear through the FOH". For reasons mentioned throughout the forum, I love going direct but I'm still looking for a home "creation/audition" solution that translates to FOH well. I'm just wondering what some of you guys are doing in this arena.

 

[browlett]

So, what are you guys using for "amplification/listening environment" at home when you create your presets?

I don't disagree with your experience about consistency of tone through direct-to-the board setups but one thing I have found elusive is matching the FOH environment with a reasonably equivalent "home listening/preset creation" environment. I agree that the tone is fairly consistent through various FOH environments but the one area that I'm still searching for is the "what I hear at home is pretty much what I hear through the FOH". For reasons mentioned throughout the forum, I love going direct but I'm still looking for a home "creation/audition" solution that translates to FOH well. I'm just wondering what some of you guys are doing in this arena.

Personally, I initially build my presets at home next to my computer. I'm persently monitoring there thru some M-Audio BX series studio monitors. I've basically got a mixing board that feeds them. I run my Ultra FRFR into the mixing board and also have my computer audio outputs going there, as well. I start here so that I can play along with music from my computer. I try backing tracks and other things to simulate playing loudly with other instruments. Anyway, once I get the patches sounding good there, I'll try playing it through my PA system (which presently consists of JBL PRX series mains) and crank it up. I'll also try it through powered floor monitors and pretty much anything else I can find that has tweeters in it and is full-range to see how it all sounds through different equipment. I can usually get a good feel for where I'm at and what it's likely to sound like in your average venue. I realize that not everyone has quite as much equipment like this at their disposal at home. The bottom line is to just have one decent FRFR monitoring device or system, get it to sound good there when played loudly, and then adjust a little after you try it out in other places.

 

[luitanent_dan]

The signal that comes out of that mic and goes to the sound board can be a real spin of the roulette wheel. Going FRFR eliminates all of this. You get consistent sound. It will sound more "the same" around the room. You can totally change everything right from your Axe Fx. I can't imagine EVER running my Axe Fx through a traditional guitar cabinet and putting a mic in front of it again.

This is what I was thinking, but I just wanted to see what the general census was..

I think I will give it a try going direct to FOH for a while and see how it goes. I'm loving the tone I get via my studio monitors at home, but it will be interesting to see if a similar tone comes out of FOH.

In general, what is the 'space' in the overall mix eq where guitar lives? I thought it was around the 2K mark.

 

[michl_666]

[quote="luitanent_dan":egqvzwic]Just wondering how u use your axefx live?

FRFR and through a tube amp (but not at the same time). Both works. I like FRFR more because of the flexibility.
[quote="luitanent_dan":egqvzwic]Also, how do u eq your tones on the axefx when playing live? Ie. Do you get rid of most stuff below 2k so it sits nicely in the mix, or do u let the sound tech sort that out at the sound desk?

Normally all my presets are set up that all freq below ~100Hz and above ~7000Hz are cut. Sometimes a bit additional Global EQ if necessary (i.e. too boomy). [/quote:egqvzwic]
How do you do it ? PEQ - blocking or somethin else ? What adjustements do you usually do on Global EQ ? Thanks.[/quote:egqvzwic]I must admit that my approch is not consistent on this one. I still have a PEQ after each cab with blocking freq below 100-150 Hz and above ~7000 Hz (search for Scotts and Radley PEQ suggestions, this is pretty much it). And on the amp blocks sometimes I do almost the same. Maybe it would be "better" or more consistent, to do the eqing in one place. But for some reason this works for me so far. Yes, I'm a bit lazy when it comes to tweaking ... :lol: With the Global EQ I only reduce the lowest 2 bands (63Hz ~-3 to -6dB, 125Hz ~-1,5 to -3dB) to tame the boominess coming ie from the fact, that I use my monitor as a wedge live instead of the vertical use at the rehearsal.
My experience is that you can almost do everything, as long as is sounds good to your ears. So just try it. Whatever works for you is right.

Have fun!

 

[Casper]

This is how I currently do it:

When initially setting up a new sound, I use Axe-edit on the computer. My computer feeds basically a HiFi stereo system - a SS power amp and then to 2 large Hi-Fi speakers with 16" woofers - old style. These have a nice crisp flat response and are powerful. I keep it loud and mix in backing tracks while experimenting. This gives me an idea of what a recorded mix would sound like (we sometimes record live direct from the mixer).

This also gives me a good sense for the bottom and hi end limits of what I can expect from a FR PA. I mainly make sure there are no ear piercing spikes, fatiguing frequencies, or thumping qualities. Then I put the same patch thru 1x12 cabs and check it out, because not all PAs are very Hi-Fi. I keep any time based FX levels much lower than I think is normal because, in my experience, once you get to the hall of wherever you are playing you will wind up with natural FX and it gets to be too much. Also, I keep gain lower so things don't get washed out live.

Finally, I do final tweaking as I go with the band. It is an iterative process. You need to do this because the hall and how full it is (people in the room) affect the sound in a big way.

After a few rounds of this, the tweaks are relatively minor. If I do tweak, usually I just lower the gain further. Because I am usually pressed for time at this point, some fast tricks for me are to just tweak the input knob (gain), simply turn off any offending FX, and let the sound man handle the other tweaks (EQ).

Most of my base sounds are already pretty dialed in, so I don't go thru this process too often (save for maybe firmware upgrades etc.).

 

[Sixstring]

Direct...

 

[TheOtherDave]

I keep any time based FX levels much lower than I think is normal because, in my experience, once you get to the hall of wherever you are playing you will wind up with natural FX and it gets to be too much.

This is especially true of reverb. Most (not all, though) places that are big enough to have a live band are big enough to have a non-trivial amount of natural reverb just as a byproduct of being in a room that size. I'll have a long verb ready for the slow stuff, but faster songs frequently get little-to-none (vocal-only parts not withstanding). I think I've asked musicians to turn down the verb more often than I've asked them to turn down the volume.

 

[FrankW]

Someone uses micorfone in front of frfr?