Using the Axe-Fx with a power amp

[maxpower]

I have been reading (and reading) about the Axe-Fx but still not 100% clear about some things. I am trying to understand the amp models and how they interact with external equipment.

I already have a tube head that I like (Carvin V3).

The 4 cable method of connection is very intriguing to me as the preamp section of the tube head is in the effects loop of the Axe-Fx, which I assume means I can place it anywhere in the affects chain (well not after the power amp) or just turn is off altogether. This would give me lots of flexibility.

Having it go through the power section (and cabinet) of the tube head, I would not need (or want) the amp simulation part of the Axe-Fx, right?

I read where you can disable the power amp simulation by setting "Sag" to zero. Does this mean I could still use the amp models with my tube head?

If so, I would think that they would not sound like those original amps since my tube head will color the sound some. I am using KT77 power tubes but someone else might have 6l6s. This would color the sound differently, wouldn't it?

Is the 4CM a somewhat common way to connect the Axe-Fx to get good results?

Finally...
When turning up a tube amp it gets a certain tone that the Axe-Fx gets without the massive volume. In the Axe-Fx, what effect or parameter (if any) controls this? That is, can I simulate "that" tone with my tube head at low volumes with the Axe-Fx before my power amp?

Thanks

 

[6L6C]

The 4 cable method of connection is very intriguing to me as the preamp section of the tube head is in the effects loop of the Axe-Fx, which I assume means I can place it anywhere in the affects chain (well not after the power amp) or just turn is off altogether. This would give me lots of flexibility.

Correct would give you the ability to place on either side of your preamp. You could also run effects in series or parallel on either side of the preamp. Most flexible unit I ever used.

Having it go through the power section (and cabinet) of the tube head, I would not need (or want) the amp simulation part of the Axe-Fx, right?

Semi correct! You don’t want to be stacking a power amp or cabinet sim on top of the real deal, however you could select say a Fender Twin sim and defeat the power amp sim and of course you would have the cabinet sim off and get some pretty cool sounds. You could think of it as hot rodding your preamp section.

I read where you can disable the power amp simulation by setting "Sag" to zero. Does this mean I could still use the amp models with my tube head?

Yes part of answer above

If so, I would think that they would not sound like those original amps since my tube head will color the sound some. I am using KT77 power tubes but someone else might have 6l6s. This would color the sound differently, wouldn't it?

That is correct part of answer above best way to think of it you get a hybrid sound, this is part of the reason allot of people go for a full frequency power amp whether it be tube or solid state so they can take advantage of the power amp sims.

When turning up a tube amp it gets a certain tone that the Axe-Fx gets without the massive volume. In the Axe-Fx, what effect or parameter (if any) controls this? That is, can I simulate "that" tone with my tube head at low volumes with the Axe-Fx before my power amp?
Thanks

I would have to say no since you would still need to push your real power amp.

However if you were using the Axe Fx through some monitor speaker with all the sims the answer would be yes! The master volume reacts like its real counterpart. Also with cabinet sims there is a parameter to simulate how hard you are driving the speaker


John

 

[maxpower]

Having it go through the power section (and cabinet) of the tube head, I would not need (or want) the amp simulation part of the Axe-Fx, right?

Semi correct! You don’t want to be stacking a power amp or cabinet sim on top of the real deal, however you could select say a Fender Twin sim and defeat the power amp sim and of course you would have the cabinet sim off and get some pretty cool sounds. You could think of it as hot rodding your preamp section.

This is probably an unanswerable question (without trying it first) but how much of the tone of an amp model (in Axe-Fx) comes from the preamp section vs the power amp section? That is, if I select the Fender Twin model but use my Carvin V3 power amp (assuming I have an open back twin cab), will it sound Fender Twin[ish]?

I realize that is probably not a fair question and the answer is not going to sway me from purchasing one in the future but I am curious.

Using the 4CM connection method... if I were to use an amp model with my V3, I would not use the preamp in the V3. Just the power amp section. But on another patch, I would use the V3 preamp and no amp sim. Again, amazing flexibility this way!

I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. I am really looking forward to getting one (prolly in another month or so). Until then, all I can do is dream and ask some questions lol

 

[6L6C]

Using the 4CM connection method... if I were to use an amp model with my V3, I would not use the preamp in the V3. Just the power amp section. But on another patch, I would use the V3 preamp and no amp sim. Again, amazing flexibility this way!

You are correct again!

This is probably an unanswerable question (without trying it first) but how much of the tone of an amp model (in Axe-Fx) comes from the preamp section vs the power amp section? That is, if I select the Fender Twin model but use my Carvin V3 power amp (assuming I have an open back twin cab), will it sound Fender Twin[ish]?

It’s hard to say every amp sim will react different against your real power amp. I think the reason I picked a Fender Twin out of the air was because, I have a Mesa Mark IV and when I run a Fender Twin model against the real Mesa power amp it does sound allot like a Fender. Keep in mind the Mesa has 6L6’s and a Fender Twin has 6V6’s, although not the same both tubes have a very open quality to them, also the early Mesa’s were based on Fender designs. Will it sound like an open back cab? No, in my case it sounds a bit like a Fender twin going through a 2x12 closed back. (In my case the 2x12 Mesa Recto)
I never really messed around too much with this aspect of the Axe Fx. Some things may not sound as good and other s might blow you away.

If I use my Mesa with 4 cable method I am very happy just using the 3 channels of that amp and feel no need to bring in the Axe Fx amp sims. Between the Mesa and all the different drive box’s and EQ’s the AF provides it is a extremely large pallet right there. However would not be opposed to it either.

Me personally since I got my AF (Feb 09) I barely touch my Mesa (and sometimes feel guilty).
You can see my present rig at the bottom in my signature, I’m using a solid state power amp but with a real cabinet, so needless to say on the AF the speaker sim’s are off.