Using the AXE-FX II with the 4 cable method. quality of effects Compared to Eventide?

J

Joost Assink

Member
Hi,
I have owned the Axe-FX Ultra for six months in 2011. I loved it for playing live, but for me the clean tones did not cut it compared to my tube amplifier. So I sold it.

However, with the introduction of the Axe-Fx 2, and its optimization for the 4 cable method, I am interested to hear what you guys think of it as a effect unit. Using it only for the stomp boxes and modulation and time-based effects. I am specifically interested in a tube spring reverb effect to use in my Effectloop. Of course I will also be using it for all other effects. How does it compare to the gold standard of the eventide eclipse and other alternatives?

Look forward to your feedback. Thanks
 
Do a search on the 4 cable method(4CM). People are having problems with that. Fractal has a special mod (not standard on the II) to reduce the noise with 4CM on certain higher gain amps. I've never tried the 4CM myself but there has been a lot of banter here and a little mud slinging.
 
Well....


Billy Howerdel, for one, preferred using the Axe FX to his 16 racks of different effects. I'm thinking "The Edge" uses one as well as Steve Vai, just for a few pro references. So, the effects are satisfying those guys to at least some level. I like the effects, sure as hell.

However, there are some who say that the eventide effects, as all of the processing power is used for effects, still sound better. And some guys say that the vintage and boutique stomp boxes sound better. Then again, there are guys who say that the Axe-fx sounds better than the original amps and cabs they are modeled after - so beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

But I don't know if I would buy a amp/cab simulator if all I wanted was an effects rack. It just doesn't make sense (to me) to put that kind of money into it unless you'll be using it for recording, gigging with the amps/cabs, re-amping, etc. as you have to consider that a pretty heavy amount of the processing power is devoted to amplifier and cabinet use. I know the reason that I own one is that it is the most elegant solution to my home recording needs for both bass and guitar, and possibly to run vocals out into some wild effects - haven't given that one a go yet, but I assure you it's coming.

Just my two cents, mind you. Research is your best buddy.
 
I'm gonna be that guy and ask why you posted this in the recordings section...

But I'll also add that if you have the money, the Axe is a good buy for the effects only not only because of their quality but also because you might try out some of the amp models and realize your use of the 4CM just adds a superfluous, heavy "real" amp haha. But seriously, with the Axe, you get all of the high quality effects, and you might find that the modeling is incredibly useful for, say, recording demos that you later flesh out and play live with your go to real amp. So if you can afford it, it's a win-win.
 
ccroyalsenders said:
I'm gonna be that guy and ask why you posted this in the recordings section...

But I'll also add that if you have the money, the Axe is a good buy for the effects only not only because of their quality but also because you might try out some of the amp models and realize your use of the 4CM just adds a superfluous, heavy "real" amp haha. But seriously, with the Axe, you get all of the high quality effects, and you might find that the modeling is incredibly useful for, say, recording demos that you later flesh out and play live with your go to real amp. So if you can afford it, it's a win-win.
Click to expand...

Good points!

In fact, what you explained (about demoing with the amp-models, but then using the "real-amp" live, and the Axe-FX II as a high-end effects-processor) is something that John Petrucci does, correct?!?

Bill
 
Well... yes and no.

We know Petrucci uses the Axe-fx II live for something. We don't know exactly what he uses it live for, and I think due to endorsements that artists have with numerous companies, we may never really know.

The effects on the Axe-fx II kick ass. I'm loving them. The flexibility and availability to top-notch sounds are great! Granted, I'm FRFR DI recording with IRs, so I don't know how they sound in an amplifier situation. But for what I'm doing, I'm super happy. My only point was that if I were not intending to be recording at home, doing demos, production stuff and the like - the Axe-II might not have been for me.

That said, for a rather low investment, if you have a computer you can get a budget DAW like Reaper, Superior Drummer 2.0, some decent monitors or really good headphones, and you'll be off making really high-quality demos and recordings after a bit of a learning period. I'd say give it a shot, but only if you really want to tap into the full potential of this awesome unit.
 
Having used but not really mastered all of the usual suspects from Eventide, Lexicon, Roland, Sony, etc. the AxeFX seems to hold its own. However, if you are looking for specific one to one replacement for your favorite "high end" effect, you may be disappointed. None of them are really one to one so creating similar presets may take awhile and require multiple blocks when you were thinking it would be just one. I think there is great potential in the AxeFXII platform and I really hope Cliff either works on the effects only side of it or produces another unit that is dedicated to effects only (I am so there if that happens). He has admitted that the effects have not been the focus and that there's work to be done there (there's at least one post in the forum to this effect) but at the same time believes it can still compete with the other units. The main focus has been Guitar modeller with excellent effects which is not exactly the same as the other units.

So if I were you, I'd either borrow one or buy one and work intensely through the trial period to figure out if it's worth it to you.
 
I am not a high gain player and mostly play on clean and have no problem with 4cm or just going straight in sounds great. I use it to replace my pedal board. Although I hope fractal catches up on updating all the effects, I believe more models of stomp boxes and other fx would be great. Yes some real progress was made in the last update such as the two drives that were added and the Leslie has been improved. Keep it up fas!
 
I have an Ultra which I have been using for ages 4CM with a Mesa MkV and a Marshall YJM amp and it works great in that format. Recording aside, the amps on the Ultra were not real enough for me - or I couldn't dial them - so I stuck with tube amps. Although I also use a Yamaha DG1000 preamp which is analogue, but not tube.

I've had an Axe II for a couple of months now and the amps are fantastic, so much so that I'm considering ditching the tube amps now, the Axe II is that good.

But, getting to the point, I have found the Axe II to be far more noisy in 4CM than the Ultra and this has been mentioned by quite a few folks. It is a good job the amps in the II are so good because, personally, I would have been disappointed if I was planning on using it 4CM. It seems a backward step from the Ultra in that particular application to me. I've got them both and can play them side by side, so it's not a case of fond memories.
 
I use my AxeII in th 4CM with a Splawn QR amp and have very little noise. I used an HE2 with a TRS to the Axe and TS to the front input of the Splawn and it is pitch quiet now. It sounds great to me. I also have a Matrix 1000FX 2-U that I incorporate for stereo and amp model patches so I can get the best of both worlds.
I was a long time TC Gsystem user and had used 4CM and have to say using the 4CM with the Axe works out nicely for my use. I also think some of the experiences with it on the AxeII are amp dependent....places nicely with some...some not so nice.
 
stratamania said:
Guitarman86, would you be able to post more details of your setup ? It sounds an interesting combination.
Click to expand...

See page 21 of the manual for setup. I place the HE2 hum eliminator between Out2-L and front input of the Amp head.

Out 2-L >trs cable >in channel 1 of HE2
Out channel 1 of HE2>ts cable to amp front input
Out 1-L>to return on amp head
In2-L>to send on amp head
Out1-R>to return on a second amp head (or use a power amp)

You need a TRS to TS cable or an HE2 to eliminate some noise. See humbuster section on page 161
This may help with some amps.
 
GuitarMan86 said:
See page 21 of the manual for setup. I place the HE2 hum eliminator between Out2-L and front input of the Amp head.

Out 2-L >trs cable >in channel 1 of HE2
Out channel 1 of HE2>ts cable to amp front input
Out 1-L>to return on amp head
In2-L>to send on amp head
Out1-R>to return on a second amp head (or use a power amp)

You need a TRS to TS cable or an HE2 to eliminate some noise. See humbuster section on page 161
This may help with some amps.
Click to expand...

Patches with the "effects loop" block utilize the 4CM setup
Patches without the effects loop block can utilize the returns on the amps to make use of the amp blocks
I have guitar cabs so "cab sims" are always off in all presets
Power amp sims are on and only amp block used for those presets.

Hope this helps
 
Guitarman86, yes thanks helpful info, I was interested in how you were using the ebtech, one or both channels and whether the ebtech was rather than using a humbuster cable. Thanks again.
 
stratamania said:
Guitarman86, yes thanks helpful info, I was interested in how you were using the ebtech, one or both channels and whether the ebtech was rather than using a humbuster cable. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Exactly, I don't have a humbuster cable made up so I use one channel of the EBTech with a TS and TRS cable.
 
billmeedog said:
Good points!

In fact, what you explained (about demoing with the amp-models, but then using the "real-amp" live, and the Axe-FX II as a high-end effects-processor) is something that John Petrucci does, correct?!?
Click to expand...

He has said so on many occasions. Demoed the latest album w/the Axe II and uses it for post effects live.


Speculum Speculorum said:
Well... yes and no.
We know Petrucci uses the Axe-fx II live for something. We don't know exactly what he uses it live for, and I think due to endorsements that artists have with numerous companies, we may never really know.
Click to expand...

I don't know why you'd think that... this video is beyond explicit in what he uses it for...

 
billmeedog said:
Good points!

In fact, what you explained (about demoing with the amp-models, but then using the "real-amp" live, and the Axe-FX II as a high-end effects-processor) is something that John Petrucci does, correct?!?
Click to expand...

He has said so on many occasions. Demoed the latest album w/the Axe II and uses it for post effects live.


Speculum Speculorum said:
Well... yes and no.
We know Petrucci uses the Axe-fx II live for something. We don't know exactly what he uses it live for, and I think due to endorsements that artists have with numerous companies, we may never really know.
Click to expand...

I don't know why you'd think that... this video is beyond explicit in what he uses it for...

 
guitarman86 - does your set up reduce the hissing? Do you get hissing without the HE2?

I find I get a lot of hissing in 4CM which I don't get with the Ultra. Some do, some don't it seems which would tend to suggest either user error or incompatible amp types for those that do. I have my II set up exactly the same as my Ultra and the Ultra is much quieter in 4CM with the same amps. Luckily, the amps in the II are so good, I'm not too bothered as I'm not using my amps so much, but if there is a way of resolving the hiss - without sending it back for the mod - that would be good.
 
MNG said:
I find I get a lot of hissing in 4CM which I don't get with the Ultra. Some do, some don't it seems which would tend to suggest either user error or incompatible amp types for those that do.
Click to expand...

Lower gain on the amp, and higher output pickups makes a difference, and some might be satisfied in those scenarios. I'm not, it was the noisiest output I've ever encountered. You can go as far as possible with the boost/pad...it might take you to an "acceptable" hiss floor, depending on your setup and demands, but it will also limit your headroom. If you're not satisfied with the hiss-floor, the only way to lower it is to get the hardware-fix done.
 
Hey, my bad - didn't know of that Petrucci video.

I'm loving the effects on the Axe though. I just got done routing out a vocal line for distressed, modulated stereo delay and I'll be damned if it doesn't sound better than Logic's stock plug-ins for sure. All I was pointing out was that you should probably consider your needs before purchasing spending approximately $600 more on the Axe-fx than an Eventide processor. I wouldn't use the thing for reverbs, really, but that's because I've got better sounding reverbs for recording (Lexicon bundle). On the up side, if you do go with the Axe-fx II, you'll have a lot more than just an effects processor. You could get into DI recording, which is pretty much the only sane way to get really, REALLY quality home recordings that don't get the neighbors to call the police.
 
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