Using my old Delay Pedal friends again! And loving it!

[indeloon85]

Ok so this is in no way a dig at the Axe Fx kind of thread I'm starting. I love this damn thing and with FW19b2, this thing is just blowing my mind. Where it sometimes took awhile to dial in a sound I was stoked on, now is happening much faster.

So all this talk of the delays that were released today (I downloaded and geeked out for awhile on, and LOVED them) got me super interested in maybe throwing my old delays that I've stuffed in the corner back into the workflow. I pulled out my DD-20, EH Stereo Memory Man, Line 6 Echo Park, Verbzilla, and Mxr Carbon Copy. With the exception of the Carbon Copy (because of the lack of FULL Wet option on the output of the pedal) all of these pedals sounded phenomenal in the FX Loop, as they should have.

A quick heads up on how I have it setup, Output 1 (Copy L->R), Input 2 (Left Only or Mono, depending on what effect I'm using). I have my Input 2 Level around 40%, and my Output 2 knob maxing around 12 (noon) and below that. I'm using the Output 2 like Mix knob, while running the FX Loop in Parallel and the effect pedal Fully wet.

My question is, just to get the best out of the scenario, has anyone else figured out a way to run this any different or better? My only problem is that if I use the Output 2 knob any higher than noon, I get a little distortion, and I think it's digital. Though I have a feeling it's the pedal's input that I may be hitting too hard and causing it. Not a huge deal, since noon is plenty enough for mix, but curious if anyone else has this setup differently. Thanks!!

 

[chris]

I get a little distortion, and I think it's digital. Though I have a feeling it's the pedal's input that I may be hitting too hard and causing it.

hitting an analog input too hard isn't digital it's analog. that's probably exactly what's happening, as the Axe can deliver a ton of output signal.

what you described seems the proper way to use Output/Input 2 of the Axe as an FX Loop.

 

[indeloon85]

hitting an analog input too hard isn't digital it's analog. that's probably exactly what's happening, as the Axe can deliver a ton of output signal.

what you described seems the proper way to use Output/Input 2 of the Axe as an FX Loop.

Awesome! I'm glad to know that. Thank you Chris! Love the website man.

 

[lqdsnddist]

Not knocking those pedals but most of them aren't doing anything that special and should be easy enough to duplicate in the Axe

Did you try Simeon's collection of 50 effects blocks he just made ? Some fantastic delay opinions in there to put it mildly...

Not trying to talk you out of hooking up your DD-20, Echo Park etc if that is what you think sounds best, but running external pedals certainly does add some routing complexity

 

[indeloon85]

Not knocking those pedals but most of them aren't doing anything that special and should be easy enough to duplicate in the Axe

Did you try Simeon's collection of 50 effects blocks he just made ? Some fantastic delay opinions in there to put it mildly...

Not trying to talk you out of hooking up your DD-20, Echo Park etc if that is what you think sounds best, but running external pedals certainly does add some routing complexity

I agree with the fact that the pedals aren't doing anything the Axe couldn't do. For me it's getting the sound I want at a faster pace and not have to sit there tweaking to get a sound that I can pull up quick by plugging something in.

I'm loving those blocks that he came out with yesterday! It's what inspired me to hook this up, funny enough. To me though, it's a little more inspiring at the moment to turn knobs on the pedals than to click dials in Axe Edit, but that's just me for now. Kinda gets me away from looking at numbers and frequency charts and more listening and playing.

Believe me, i know the axe can do SOOO many things, it's sometimes just that quick pull up of an effect and not sitting there tweaking, but tracking and getting the idea down while you're in a session. The amps are definitely at that point where I can pull them up and not have to tweak as much anymore for a certain sound I'm going for.

Plus I couldn't stand seeing them sitting in the corner for so long not being used haha!!

 

[zakkrhoads]

Wouldnt the axefx capable to replace all your delay pedal? How do they compare?

 

[chris]

It's like telling someone they don't need to wear a hat.

 

[fuzzyoctaves]

I have a Carbon Copy in the loop just for easy knob twisting access to crazy oscillation. Long term, I was thinking I'd try using my KeyLab Midi keyboard's knobs and sliders to control AxeFX parameters in realtime. Has anyone tried something like this?

 

[indeloon85]

It's like telling someone they don't need to wear a hat.

hahaha!!! That's a pretty good analogy!

 

[indeloon85]

I have a Carbon Copy in the loop just for easy knob twisting access to crazy oscillation. Long term, I was thinking I'd try using my KeyLab Midi keyboard's knobs and sliders to control AxeFX parameters in realtime. Has anyone tried something like this?

I am curious about you using the Carbon Copy in the loop. Because it doesn't do a Fully Wet processed signal, how do you deal with the double dry signal coming thru?

 

[fuzzyoctaves]

I am curious about you using the Carbon Copy in the loop. Because it doesn't do a Fully Wet processed signal, how do you deal with the double dry signal coming thru?

Hmm - I am using it only for noise (crazy self oscillation stuff), so I didn't notice. The mix knob maxed doesn't kill all the dry signal? I'll play around with it and report back.

 

[lqdsnddist]

It's like telling someone they don't need to wear a hat.

My specific post was with regards to if he's tried all the cool blocks Simeon made. Seems one of the main issues people have with the Axe delay isn't the quality, which I think we all can agree meets or exceeds pretty much anything on the market, its dialing in the sound. Simeon really helped make fantastic delay settings readily available for everyone now, so I wanted to see if the OP was aware of these since they were just posted yesterday.

It was an issue of if the reason he went for digging out the L6 unit etc was simply because it was easier to use, and if maybe Simeon's blocks could of given him equally what he wanted, but with less external gear

Geez... Impossible to try to help anyone these days.... Place has just gone downhill a bit or everyone is too on edge anymore. Even saw Cliff kind of lash out a bit in a thread yesterday (though he then went onto provide a very useful post later that really explained power amp and preamp distortion and hardness controls)

Off topic I suppose, and sorry to hijack a thread, but this place just isn't very fun to contribute too....

 

[chris]

words

i wasn't referring to you at all.

 

[fuzzyoctaves]

I am curious about you using the Carbon Copy in the loop. Because it doesn't do a Fully Wet processed signal, how do you deal with the double dry signal coming thru?

Now I am a bit confused. (surely due my own limitations here)

So, yes, even with the mix knob dimed, I get the dry signal coming through. Same with a couple other delay pedals I tried (Flashback and DE7). My Polara reverb does 100% wet though.
What I don't get is what you mean by "double dry signal coming through?"

To add clarity, I am using a simple mono chain that sends 100% of the "dry" signal (not really "dry" as it is going through an AMP and CAB block before hitting the loop) through the FX Loop and then the signal chain goes to the output. I am not seeing where there could be a "double dry signal" here???

 

[indeloon85]

My specific post was with regards to if he's tried all the cool blocks Simeon made. Seems one of the main issues people have with the Axe delay isn't the quality, which I think we all can agree meets or exceeds pretty much anything on the market, its dialing in the sound. Simeon really helped make fantastic delay settings readily available for everyone now, so I wanted to see if the OP was aware of these since they were just posted yesterday.

It was an issue of if the reason he went for digging out the L6 unit etc was simply because it was easier to use, and if maybe Simeon's blocks could of given him equally what he wanted, but with less external gear

Geez... Impossible to try to help anyone these days.... Place has just gone downhill a bit or everyone is too on edge anymore. Even saw Cliff kind of lash out a bit in a thread yesterday (though he then went onto provide a very useful post later that really explained power amp and preamp distortion and hardness controls)

Off topic I suppose, and sorry to hijack a thread, but this place just isn't very fun to contribute too....

Hey man! Totally no ill-will to you at all. I found what you wrote very helpful. I did use those blocks that Simeon put out, and they sound great! I will definitely be using them and might even phase out the whole external pedal stuff. Just for now, I plugged them in, and really just enjoyed the benefit of tweaking knobs, blah blah blah.

I think in what Chris was saying was that its just personal preference, and probably how you feel on the day you use the gear. I like to change it up every now and then, as I'm sure most people do, and incorporate things I may have done in the past or whatever. To me, the more options I have at my disposal, the more things I can bring up on the fly.

Tweaking the Axe, for me, sometimes takes a little more time than I'd like, especially when recording, so to me the benefit of grabbing a pedal and tweaking it really quick is pretty appealing.

But thats just me, and I'll probably go back to tweaking the axe if I don't find what I'm looking for in a pedal. Its so funny how many hours I can lose in tweaking amps/cabs/FX/etc. prior to a session and then entering a session, its just a quick up and go. Definitely not enough time to sit and tweak. But thank you again for the heads up on the Simeon blocks!

 

[indeloon85]

Now I am a bit confused. (surely due my own limitations here)

So, yes, even with the mix knob dimed, I get the dry signal coming through. Same with a couple other delay pedals I tried (Flashback and DE7). My Polara reverb does 100% wet though.
What I don't get is what you mean by "double dry signal coming through?"

To add clarity, I am using a simple mono chain that sends 100% of the "dry" signal (not really "dry" as it is going through an AMP and CAB block before hitting the loop) through the FX Loop and then the signal chain goes to the output. I am not seeing where there could be a "double dry signal" here???

Ah! Ok, ya I was referring to running the effect Parallel, as I do. In your case, this wouldn't be a problem. For running the effect in Parallel, you'd want to have your DRY signal, and a 100% WET signal. If you don't, then you get 2 dry signals blending, causing phasing.
Nevermind about my question before then! haha That is a great pedal though!

 

[fuzzyoctaves]

Ah! Ok, ya I was referring to running the effect Parallel, as I do. In your case, this wouldn't be a problem. For running the effect in Parallel, you'd want to have your DRY signal, and a 100% WET signal. If you don't, then you get 2 dry signals blending, causing phasing.
Nevermind about my question before then! haha That is a great pedal though!

Ah - gotcha. You are using it in the FX loop of your wet chain and the CC lets the dry through. For that kind of delay use case, I am pretty sure you can replicate the Carbon Copy in a delay block.

 

[digitalwaveform]

Just have to chime in. A consistent response I see all over this forum to practically every user who does anything 'outside-of-the-box' of the Axe is immediately asked, 'Why would you do that when you can do it in the Axe??"

I think at this point, most people who have spent more than a few hours or days on this board understands that the Fractal stuff CAN do a tremendous amount. I don't think it's a debate anymore. That's why most of us purchased one. I wouldn't have bought them had I thought they couldn't do what I needed. So the knee jerk response I see of, 'Why would you use that??' is a turn off.

Considering that the majority of the posts that I read on this board consist of, "I have X piece of gear, I can't get that sound out of my Fractal and I've tried XYZ." Maybe we should look at why??

When I'm gigging with an amp, if it needs any tweaking, ie too boomy, too bright, too loud etc, I grab a knob and make an adjustment, usually while I'm hitting a G chord MID SONG. Or if my delay ain't what I want, rinse repeat. The Fractal is a DIFFERENT LEVEL of commitment. You generally can't make those adjustments mid gig. I've tried. Set break is best I can do. With all this power comes a large learning curve for most. And frankly, people go to MP&E classes for 4 years just to learn what an LFO does and how a graphic EQ is dif then a parametric etc etc.

So when it comes to delays. Yes, I CAN program them. I can sit there and deconstruct a different unit and mentally list the 20 different nuances I'm hearing and try to clone it in the Axe, and I have.

Or...
I can plug in my Diamond Memory Lane 2 in the FX loop, set all the knobs at noon and play and say WOW!

I think this gets lost so often in the discussion. I think people get so emotionally attached to the Fractal that it feels like there's an undercurrent of, 'WTF is wrong with you for plugging in a different piece of gear man, the Fractal can do it.'

I KNOW IT CAN.

But...
When I plug in my Eclipse in the loop, I can scroll thru 75 presets in a row and just beam ear to ear.

Yes, I've cloned some delays to be pretty damn close to what I'm hearing in the Eclipse, enough so I can live without it a lot of the time. But It's very fun to get an Axe patch you dig with an FX loop set up to X piece of gear and just turn it on instead of trying to clone it for 35 min and get 80% there and still be like, hmmmmmmm. What am I missing?

Again, not disputing the power of it. I'm pretty damn good at programming, and I still don't always get there. I can totally sympathize with people who AREN'T good/great at it, and to them it's a rabbit hole that goes on and on. YMMV.

 

[jesussaddle]

My specific post was with regards to if he's tried all the cool blocks Simeon made. Seems one of the main issues people have with the Axe delay isn't the quality, which I think we all can agree meets or exceeds pretty much anything on the market, its dialing in the sound. Simeon really helped make fantastic delay settings readily available for everyone now, so I wanted to see if the OP was aware of these since they were just posted yesterday.

It was an issue of if the reason he went for digging out the L6 unit etc was simply because it was easier to use, and if maybe Simeon's blocks could of given him equally what he wanted, but with less external gear

Geez... Impossible to try to help anyone these days.... Place has just gone downhill a bit or everyone is too on edge anymore. Even saw Cliff kind of lash out a bit in a thread yesterday (though he then went onto provide a very useful post later that really explained power amp and preamp distortion and hardness controls)

Off topic I suppose, and sorry to hijack a thread, but this place just isn't very fun to contribute too....

It is so helpful to have those delay blocks from Simeon!!! Thanks Simeon!! It was one of my weak points, kind of like people who can throw a perfect spiral football pass, I was always mystified with guys like the Edge, who could come up with creative ways to use a delay. I just never "got" how to work with delays because I guess until I had the axe fx I was always bothered with lack of quality amps and cabs and mic'ing skills. Now that all the other stuff is outta the way,, the delays really were my weak link, because I do love the way they sound, and always enjoyed music that use them, so having kind of an encyclopedia is a real helpful thing. Thanks again.