Using FC-6 with my FM9

[RMosack]

I've had my FM9 for a short time and am admittedly still learning the ropes. I recently added an FC-6 for the express purpose of expanding the capabilities of what I can do with 4CM when I pair my Fractal with my Synergy stuff. But I have absolutely no idea how to even start.

I plugged the FC-6 into the FM9 with the link cable. It makes the six switches on the FC6 default to the first six scenes of each preset. Ok, that's fine for a start. At least I know they are talking to each other and the FC-6 works.

But this is not how I want to use it. I want to go in and assign different functions to the FC-6 switches. I put a MIDI block in a preset and can see that toggling it with my mouse works for changing Synergy channels. But I have no idea how to assign that - or anything else - to the FC-6.

I can't remotely figure out how to do anything with the FC6. In the Fractal editor, I can only "see" the 9 footswitches on the FM9. I can't even find the FC-6. I'm sure there's something obvious that I don't know. But at this point, I have no clue. Any help is highly appreciated.

 

[unix-guy]

The Scene Midi block triggers when changing scenes. You can't use a switch to send midi from there unless you change scenes.

You can, however use Control Switch Midi instead.

I'd suggest you start with reading the FC manual and the Footswitch Functions Guide. Both links are here:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/rtfm-read-the-fine-manual.159203/

A critical piece to understanding how/what you can do is Layouts.

 

[JoKeR III]

The first thing to understand is the 9 layouts in FM9 Edit are shared between the FM9 and FC-6, they do not have 9 separate layouts. This video explains the FC-6 with the FM3 but the concept is the same as with the FM9:

 

[chris]

I've had my FM9 for a short time and am admittedly still learning the ropes. I recently added an FC-6 for the express purpose of expanding the capabilities of what I can do with 4CM when I pair my Fractal with my Synergy stuff. But I have absolutely no idea how to even start.

I plugged the FC-6 into the FM9 with the link cable. It makes the six switches on the FC6 default to the first six scenes of each preset. Ok, that's fine for a start. At least I know they are talking to each other and the FC-6 works.

But this is not how I want to use it. I want to go in and assign different functions to the FC-6 switches. I put a MIDI block in a preset and can see that toggling it with my mouse works for changing Synergy channels. But I have no idea how to assign that - or anything else - to the FC-6.

I can't remotely figure out how to do anything with the FC6. In the Fractal editor, I can only "see" the 9 footswitches on the FM9. I can't even find the FC-6. I'm sure there's something obvious that I don't know. But at this point, I have no clue. Any help is highly appreciated.

there are 2 things happening here.

1st is how to use the FC with the FM.

2nd is how to use the MIDI block.

as mentioned, the FC and FM share the same 9 layouts. if you want the FC to have completely different switches, the easiest way is to dedicate one of the Layouts 1 - 8 to the FC. let's say we blank out Layout 8. set your FC to boot with Layout 8 in FC Setup. then go to Layout 8 in the editor and assign what you need.

the MIDI block is a "Scene MIDI block." it's design is to send the MIDI messages when you change Scenes. so using the MIDI block doesn't let you send MIDI signals alone, but lets you send MIDI at the same time you change a Scene.

if your Scenes are already made to work with your changing Synergy tones, you are done. just make the correct MIDI messages for the correct channel of the Synergy, and it will happen when you change Scenes.

however if you want to send MIDI messages alone, not sync'd to changing Scenes, you'd be better off using Control Switch MIDI messages. here you setup up to 6 Control Switches (a type of switch function) and assign MIDI messages to each one, like CS1, CS2, etc. using the CS MIDI button in the FC Edit view. with this you can send MIDI without having to change a Scene.

 

[RMosack]

however if you want to send MIDI messages alone, not sync'd to changing Scenes, you'd be better off using Control Switch MIDI messages. here you setup up to 6 Control Switches (a type of switch function) and assign MIDI messages to each one, like CS1, CS2, etc. using the CS MIDI button in the FC Edit view. with this you can send MIDI without having to change a Scene.

Lots of good stuff in your response, but this part is what really applies to me the most. First off, I need to take the advice of the two posts above yours and watch that video and study the manual. I will do that. But I wanted to reply here.

Given the nature of how I want to use the FM9 with Synergy, the Control Switch MIDI thing is best for me....once I figure it out.

I can easily use the PC messages from FM9 presets to change Synergy channels, but it's not optimal. Synergy actually "learns" the PC messages. So it's super easy. Right now, I have FM9 presets easily setup to change among the 8 channels in two SYN-2 units. Easy as pie. But the problem is each preset opens in one particular scene. That means if I have a very clean Synergy channel (like the TDLX module) with reverb and delay (from the FM9) and I want to switch to a dirty Synergy channel (like the Plexi module) without delay, I select the preset linked to that Plexi channel. But it opens in the same scene each time. That means it has to already have delay, or reverb, or chorus, or none of the above. That way isn't so great.

So all this led me to looking into using MIDI CC commands. You can change Synergy channels in the SYN-2 modules (1A, 1B, 2A, 2B or bypass) with CC messages. This would work best for me because it would be like changing amp channels while the effects in the "loop" (actually the FM9) remain the same. I just need to figure out how to do this in a handful of FM9 presets WITHOUT MESSING UP HOW ANYTHING ELSE WORKS IN MY FMR SO I CAN STILL RUN IT INTO FRFR SPEAKERS WHEN NOT USING SYNERGY.


Also...
I need to think more about using the MIDI scene thing and what it would mean for me. I'm thinking there are three ways to manage the Synergy stuff with the FM9:
1) PC messages automatically sent with preset changes on the FM9 - not optimal
2) MIDI sync'd to changing scenes - need to figure this out
3) MIDI CC commands - need to figure how to make this works given the nature of the FM9 and FC6 layout rules

 

[RMosack]

...the MIDI block is a "Scene MIDI block." it's design is to send the MIDI messages when you change Scenes. so using the MIDI block doesn't let you send MIDI signals alone, but lets you send MIDI at the same time you change a Scene.

if your Scenes are already made to work with your changing Synergy tones, you are done. just make the correct MIDI messages for the correct channel of the Synergy, and it will happen when you change Scenes....

Wait! Lightbulb just went off. I can create single preset with 8 scenes. I can have the FM9 change scenes within that block for each of my 8 Synergy channels. That would mean that each scene has it's own Synergy preamp channel. Hmmm... That might work. I understand that whatever else is happening in the scene would be there. So every preset could effectively be an 8 amp (one per scene) pedalboard. The only issue there would be managing the effects in each scene. This might be easy. If I assign a footswitch to turn on a delay or modulation effect, the job is effectively done.


Disclaimer: I admit that I still haven't read the FC6 manual or watched that video in the five minutes between these posts. So I have more to learn.

 

[RMosack]

The first thing to understand is the 9 layouts in FM9 Edit are shared between the FM9 and FC-6, they do not have 9 separate layouts. This video explains the FC-6 with the FM3 but the concept is the same as with the FM9:

Just watched. This is a great video, especially if you have an FM3. That OMG9 layout seems perfect. I really wish there was a similar layout available for FM9. But it seems like you kind of have to DIY it somehow. That's the part I guess I need to figure out to maximize how the FC6 works with the FM9.

Out of the box, it defaults to showing the first 6 presets. I guess that's kind of handy, especially if not even bothering with Synergy and just doing the pure Fractal thing. But I'm sure there are much more clever ways to do it.

Oddly, last night when I was messing around and potentially screwing a lot up, not only did my FM9 layouts change. But the FC6 changed a lot too. Took a long time to get things back to what I think are original settings.

 

[chris]

Just watched. This is a great video, especially if you have an FM3. That OMG9 layout seems perfect. I really wish there was a similar layout available for FM9. But it seems like you kind of have to DIY it somehow. That's the part I guess I need to figure out to maximize how the FC6 works with the FM9.

Out of the box, it defaults to showing the first 6 presets. I guess that's kind of handy, especially if not even bothering with Synergy and just doing the pure Fractal thing. But I'm sure there are much more clever ways to do it.

Oddly, last night when I was messing around and potentially screwing a lot up, not only did my FM9 layouts change. But the FC6 changed a lot too. Took a long time to get things back to what I think are original settings.

Original settings can be loaded from the FM9 in Setup > Utility and page all the way right for Layouts.

Please read my first post above as it describes how to use both units on different layouts.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

That OMG9 layout seems perfect. I really wish there was a similar layout available for FM9.

OMG9 is available for the FM9 but it’s known as OFM9G. Basically the three buttons from the FM3 are mapped to the top three buttons on the FM9.

It’s a very friendly layout for learning how to program your own.

 

[RMosack]

Original settings can be loaded from the FM9 in Setup > Utility and page all the way right for Layouts.

Please read my first post above as it describes how to use both units on different layouts.

Yes, I saw this: "as mentioned, the FC and FM share the same 9 layouts. if you want the FC to have completely different switches, the easiest way is to dedicate one of the Layouts 1 - 8 to the FC. let's say we blank out Layout 8. set your FC to boot with Layout 8 in FC Setup. then go to Layout 8 in the editor and assign what you need."

I'm in the midst of reading through the multiple manuals to figure out what this means and exactly HOW to do that. Plus, I'm rewatching those Rosh Roslin FM9 Basics Episodes on YouTube.

I'll feel most confident once I dissect and figure out each element of what you said:1
1) What it means that they share the same 9 layouts - I guess this makes sense
2) dedicate one of the Layouts to the FC - this seems to be the goal, but still figuring how
3) blank out Layout 8 - need to figure out how to blank a layout without screwing anything else up
4) set your FC to boot with Layout 8 in FC Setup - this one is the biggest mystery; didn't find anything in the FC manual about booting; the word "boot" never appears once in the FC manual, so there's some searching to do
5) go to the Layout 8 in the editor and assign - this makes sense once I figure out 1 through 4

 

[chris]

3) blank out Layout 8 - need to figure out how to blank a layout without screwing anything else up

go to the FC Edit area in edit, Choose Layout 8, or whatever you want to be the dedicated one for the FC and find the Layouts > Edit drop down, and choose Clear Layout, not Clear All Layouts. this will clear the layout.

4) set your FC to boot with Layout 8 in FC Setup - this one is the biggest mystery; didn't find anything in the FC manual about booting; the word "boot" never appears once in the FC manual, so there's some searching to do

Again in the FC Edit area, click the Devices button


this will pop up and set FC1 to what i have here if you chose Layout 8 for the FC. if you chose a different Layout, put that number instead of 8 here.

5) go to the Layout 8 in the editor and assign - this makes sense once I figure out 1 through 4

Now that Layout 8 (or whatever you chose) is blank, you can assign exactly what you want, and it will populate the FC6.

Be sure to choose "Show as FC6" in the left side of the editor to make it easier to assign your FC6

 

[Greg Ferguson]

It’s a learning curve but you can do this!

 

[RMosack]

go to the FC Edit area in edit, Choose Layout 8, or whatever you want to be the dedicated one for the FC and find the Layouts > Edit drop down, and choose Clear Layout, not Clear All Layouts. this will clear the layout.
View attachment 135252


Again in the FC Edit area, click the Devices button
View attachment 135253

I actually tried some of this yesterday. I got through this part no problem. The stuff that came after looked a little different. Maybe I looked in the wrong place. But the bottom line is that I was able to mess with it and get ONLY the FC-6 layout to change when I wanted to. Just for the heck of it, I aimed at one of the standard layouts for the FC-6 from it's little manual. IIRC, layouts 3 and 4 are effects and more effects. I tried making it look like those and it did. And it didn't mess up my FM9. So I took that at progress.

One thing I'm a bit unclear on is that little row in the editor above the big switch display. On your post above, I see:
"Show Edits On: FC1 FC2 FC3 FC4"

Mine does NOT look like that. I'm away from it now, but IIRC, it said something like: FM9 FC1 FC2

So yours shows FC1 FC2 FC3 FC4 while mine shows FM9 FC1 FC2.


Between those buttons and the buttons to the left, I was able to make the FC-6 stuff show on my editor...once I figured out that it looked weird! My six buttons weren't a bunch to the left or the bunch to the right. They were the six along the bottom! D'oh! That means I clearly missed something.

 

[RMosack]

this will pop up and set FC1 to what i have here if you chose Layout 8 for the FC. if you chose a different Layout, put that number instead of 8 here.
View attachment 135254

I was able to get to this bit and I had three rows. As I type this, I think I understand why mine looked different than yours! You are probably using an Axe FX III while I'm using an FM9. Instead of the four rows above, I had three rows: FM9, FC #1 and FC #2. For me, "not connected" only showed for FC #2. So I figured that the first row was my FM9. The second row was my FC-6. And the third row wasn't used because I had nothing else plugged in. Duh! Makes sense.

So I got that part. For the FC-6, which was FC #1 for me, I set current layout and startup layout both to whichever layout the manual described. Sure enough, it worked. As I said, I left it at either layout 3 or layout 4 before I finally stopped. Just to mess with it.

I understand CURRENT LAYOUT and STARTUP LAYOUT. My question here: What does CURRENT VIEW and STARTUP VIEW mean?

The good news is that, in one simple preset, I'm now controlling the four channels of a single SYN-2. My second SYN-2 is being repaired, so all my experiments are with just the one. I put a MIDI block in the preset. Scene 1 selects Synergy channel 1A. Scene 2 selects 1B, Scene 3 selects 2A. And Scene 4 selects 2B. I have the four cable method going for these tests. So I have a compressor, Drive block and phaser out front. After the tube amps, I have chorus, delay and reverb. Just basic stuff.

Since I'm only using 4 Synergy channels, I made scenes 5-8 the exact same as scenes 1-4, but with delay activated. Holy smokes! Like a scene for each channel, with and without delay. This thing really works. The MIDI message per scene seems like a simple and really viable approach. The part that blew me away is that as long as I don't leave a preset, it "remembers" which effects are on in the other scenes. Once I get layout 8 setup exactly how I want, this will be easy as pie. I think...

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

I actually tried some of this yesterday. I got through this part no problem. The stuff that came after looked a little different. Maybe I looked in the wrong place. But the bottom line is that I was able to mess with it and get ONLY the FC-6 layout to change when I wanted to. Just for the heck of it, I aimed at one of the standard layouts for the FC-6 from it's little manual. IIRC, layouts 3 and 4 are effects and more effects. I tried making it look like those and it did. And it didn't mess up my FM9. So I took that at progress.

Good deal!

One thing I'm a bit unclear on is that little row in the editor above the big switch display. On your post above, I see:
"Show Edits On: FC1 FC2 FC3 FC4"

Mine does NOT look like that. I'm away from it now, but IIRC, it said something like: FM9 FC1 FC2

So yours shows FC1 FC2 FC3 FC4 while mine shows FM9 FC1 FC2.

Likely he's on an Axe FX III and using Axe Edit, which has those possibilities for the FCs. FM9 is similar, but doesn't have as many FCs that can be attached, as well as having its own native buttons that the Axe FX III doesn't have.

There is also a section in the globals, accessible via the "Devices" button, that lets you set which layout comes up on start-up on each device. That'll help a bit for restoring what you have set up via the editor automagically when you start up the unit.

Between those buttons and the buttons to the left, I was able to make the FC-6 stuff show on my editor...once I figured out that it looked weird! My six buttons weren't a bunch to the left or the bunch to the right. They were the six along the bottom! D'oh! That means I clearly missed something.

Over to the left in the box under "Show As:" is a selector that lets you rearrange the editing pane to suit different devices. You can choose "FC6" there to see the buttons arranged as they are on the actual unit, but remember to switch back when editing layouts for use on the FM9 itself.

Next thing to look at and play with is Layout Links. These will allow you to automagically switch layouts when performing the action assigned to that button. I have my Preset-in-Bank buttons set up to also jump to my Scenes layout, so I select a preset and it's already ready already and waiting for input on the Scenes layout. I keep the FC6 on my "Per Preset Overrides" empty layout that gets all my "extra" buttons like effects on/off, etc. per preset.

 

[RMosack]

Be sure to choose "Show as FC6" in the left side of the editor to make it easier to assign your FC6

View attachment 135255

Sheesh! I can't tell you how many times I looked at your post before messing around...yet completely missed this gem! I'm away from the editor and FM9 now, but I think missing this was half of my confusion. Need to check into this tomorrow.

And FWIW, I'm rewatching the Rosh Roslin tutorials. I'm up to episode 11 - Looper again. He just mentioned 30 seconds ago that VIEWS is something he will get to in an upcoming video. D'oh!

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

I was able to get to this bit and I had three rows. As I type this, I think I understand why mine looked different than yours! You are probably using an Axe FX III while I'm using an FM9. Instead of the four rows above, I had three rows: FM9, FC #1 and FC #2. For me, "not connected" only showed for FC #2. So I figured that the first row was my FM9. The second row was my FC-6. And the third row wasn't used because I had nothing else plugged in. Duh! Makes sense.

So I got that part. For the FC-6, which was FC #1 for me, I set current layout and startup layout both to whichever layout the manual described. Sure enough, it worked. As I said, I left it at either layout 3 or layout 4 before I finally stopped. Just to mess with it.

I understand CURRENT LAYOUT and STARTUP LAYOUT. My question here: What does CURRENT VIEW and STARTUP VIEW mean?

Layouts can be divided into "Views" on the smaller footswitches, which allows them to have 12 buttons via a View switch.

The FC6 has two 6-button Views. The FM9 has a 9-button view and a 3-button view. I use the 3 button views to hold "Stand-in Switch" assignments, so that I don't need a separate layout to hold them. That's another topic for future thought and experimentation. I use "Stand-in Switches" for things that don't need a nice LED light to indicate their status - things like switching Layouts, View, tap tempo, or some of my control switches that have obvious effects and don't need a light to tell me they're doing their thing.

The good news is that, in one simple preset, I'm now controlling the four channels of a single SYN-2. My second SYN-2 is being repaired, so all my experiments are with just the one. I put a MIDI block in the preset. Scene 1 selects Synergy channel 1A. Scene 2 selects 1B, Scene 3 selects 2A. And Scene 4 selects 2B. I have the four cable method going for these tests. So I have a compressor, Drive block and phaser out front. After the tube amps, I have chorus, delay and reverb. Just basic stuff.

Start with basics, but build on them as you expand your comfort zone....

Since I'm only using 4 Synergy channels, I made scenes 5-8 the exact same as scenes 1-4, but with delay activated. Holy smokes! Like a scene for each channel, with and without delay. This thing really works.

I frequently do roughly the same thing (1-4 and 5-8) with single-coil vs. humbucker adjustments in presets.

The MIDI message per scene seems like a simple and really viable approach. The part that blew me away is that as long as I don't leave a preset, it "remembers" which effects are on in the other scenes. Once I get layout 8 setup exactly how I want, this will be easy as pie. I think...

 

[RMosack]

Layouts can be divided into "Views" on the smaller footswitches, which allows them to have 12 buttons via a View switch.

Once I figured out how this worked for the FC-6, it all made perfect sense. I already set up one switch with a HOLD function to call up View 2 while in View 1, and then to call up View 1 while in View 2. Absolutely fantastic. The FC-6 becomes a 12 button footswitch, in essence anyway. So easy to have the "loop effects" (chorus, pitch, delay, reverb, rotary, etc.) in one view and "before the amp effects" in the other view.

The FC6 has two 6-button Views. The FM9 has a 9-button view and a 3-button view. I use the 3 button views to hold "Stand-in Switch" assignments, so that I don't need a separate layout to hold them. That's another topic for future thought and experimentation. I use "Stand-in Switches" for things that don't need a nice LED light to indicate their status - things like switching Layouts, View, tap tempo, or some of my control switches that have obvious effects and don't need a light to tell me they're doing their thing.

The FC-6 views make sense. The six buttons show up in View 1, and then they show up again as different (sort of like secondary) buttons in View 2. But I haven't gotten a full grasp on the FM9. It has NINE buttons. I know the editor shows 12. Not sure what the second view is for the three buttons. What or where are those three buttons?

 

[unix-guy]

Once I figured out how this worked for the FC-6, it all made perfect sense. I already set up one switch with a HOLD function to call up View 2 while in View 1, and then to call up View 1 while in View 2. Absolutely fantastic. The FC-6 becomes a 12 button footswitch, in essence anyway. So easy to have the "loop effects" (chorus, pitch, delay, reverb, rotary, etc.) in one view and "before the amp effects" in the other view.



The FC-6 views make sense. The six buttons show up in View 1, and then they show up again as different (sort of like secondary) buttons in View 2. But I haven't gotten a full grasp on the FM9. It has NINE buttons. I know the editor shows 12. Not sure what the second view is for the three buttons. What or where are those three buttons?

You also have Views on the FM9...

The top left 3 switches in the Layout are View 2.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

Once I figured out how this worked for the FC-6, it all made perfect sense. I already set up one switch with a HOLD function to call up View 2 while in View 1, and then to call up View 1 while in View 2. Absolutely fantastic. The FC-6 becomes a 12 button footswitch, in essence anyway. So easy to have the "loop effects" (chorus, pitch, delay, reverb, rotary, etc.) in one view and "before the amp effects" in the other view.

I had the FC12 initially, but found that it put my controller pedals all the way at one end, and I use them too much for them to be relegated to the end of my rig. So. I got an FC6 and tested putting them in between the two, liked it, then eventually wound up with a dual FC6 rig with my original FX3. Things have evolved a bit since then.

The FC-6 views make sense. The six buttons show up in View 1, and then they show up again as different (sort of like secondary) buttons in View 2. But I haven't gotten a full grasp on the FM9. It has NINE buttons. I know the editor shows 12. Not sure what the second view is for the three buttons. What or where are those three buttons?

When you swap to View 2 on the FM9, you'll see the 3 buttons on the board and 6 buttons that are blank. I can't imagine a lot of use for them outside of maybe moving things like preset up/down, bank up/down buttons, and/or utility functions there. I use them for my always-available stand-in switches, as I have a number of external switches set up under the Temple pedalboard for stuff....