Using an expression pedals for multiple changes?

deadringer

deadringer

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Live, when I go into a solo, I engage a parametric eq set to null for a clean boost, engage a drive, eq, reverb, delay, pitch, or whatever fx I want for that particular patch I have active in a scene.

Is it possible to use an expression pedal to fade these "lead" fx at the levels I want at toe down and lower them to rhythm levels or off in the toe up position? How is the best way to do that?

I don't want to waste a scene for a "lead" channel and one lead sound won't fit for all four sounds I use.
 
Basically you need to find the CPU bandwidth to configure your toe down lead effects on the same preset as your rhythm sounds to use your expression pedal this way. In this way, you can run your toe down effects in parallel and set a volume controller block that is assigned to the desired taper curve on your expression pedal. If you want other effects to fade out when you toe down, set a volume block that is assigned to the same external controller to run those effects on a reverse taper. When you say that the sounds "won't fit", what do you mean? Is it CPU headroom, or something like lack of X/Y states? If you're talking about your signal path and otherwise have CPU headroom, see Yek's diagrams that use send/return blocks so that you can utilize more rows on your layout. I don't think that you can yet traverse separate presets or scenes with an expression pedal, the Axe-Fx can only run one preset at a time.
 
First, assign the expression pedal to one of the 'External Controllers'. Then attach all of the parameters (or bypass states) that you wish to modify to that external controller # one by one. Set the individual start (heal down) and stop (toe down) values desired for each attached parameters.

Note that these attached parameter settings will persist in all scenes of that preset. What might work for one scene might not work for another? When it does work, it is very efficient, just step on the pedal anytime to get an 'alternate' version of whatever scene that you are using.

Another option is to use 8 scenes. Scenes 1 thru 4 are your 4 main sounds in that preset. Scenes 5 thru 8 are the 'alternate' versions of those 4 main sounds. I use a version of this approach in a few presets. I have my MFC setup like so.............The first 4 switches in row #1 are scenes 1 thru 4. I'm using switch #5 to control a different piece of equipment. The first 4 switches in row #2 are scenes 5 thru 8. This aligns the scene switches so that the 'alternate' versions are directly above of each main sounds.
 
Moke said:
First, assign the expression pedal to one of the 'External Controllers'. Then attach all of the parameters (or bypass states) that you wish to modify to that external controller # one by one. Set the individual start (heal down) and stop (toe down) values desired for each attached parameters.

Note that these attached parameter settings will persist in all scenes of that preset. What might work for one scene might not work for another? When it does work, it is very efficient, just step on the pedal anytime to get an 'alternate' version of whatever scene that you are using.

Another option is to use 8 scenes. Scenes 1 thru 4 are your 4 main sounds in that preset. Scenes 5 thru 8 are the 'alternate' versions of those 4 main sounds. I use a version of this approach in a few presets. I have my MFC setup like so.............The first 4 switches in row #1 are scenes 1 thru 4. I'm using switch #5 to control a different piece of equipment. The first 4 switches in row #2 are scenes 5 thru 8. This aligns the scene switches so that the 'alternate' versions are directly above of each main sounds.
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Your first suggestion is what I'm looking for. In my presets, all four scenes have the same effects available, some have x and y statuses but they all have the same basics. I play a pretty broad range of stuff in one night so I usually have a Fender Twin, Vox, Plex, and Hot Rod Marshall tone respectively. I want to use an expression pedal to fade between a basic rhythm and lead status. The problem is that the lead tone for a song that requires a Hot Rod is usually not the same as the lead tone for a country-ed up twin sound.

Will pedal sims in front of the amp work as well controlling the level like this as modulation and delay effects post amp?

Thanks for the help!
 
That sounds like a lot to accomplish in one preset. With some clever routing and programming it should be possible (CPU permitting). If it were me, I would make a few separate presets by amp types?, song? or genres? That way you could optimize the 'lead' versions of each preset whether using scenes or an expression pedal to engage them.
 
Changing between the tones is no problem, but fading between them requires a different approach if you have many things that change at once. I'd start by doing a chain 1 and chain 2, which both merge into a mixer block, which you then control with the expression pedal. And don't forget all the parameters that can be changed with pedal can go any direction. For example, amp gain and delay level go up while delay feedback goes down, with the same pedal movement.
 
Just to clarify, I'm only fading multiple fx in and out at once. I use completely separate scenes for each amp. The patch is set up as a giant rig where all the amps share the same pre and post amp fx. I use scenes 1-4 for each amp sound (x and y of amp 1 and 2 blocks respectively). If I need to go from clean to dirty or dirty to dirtier, I go from one scene to another. I just want to add the fx I would during a solo all at once with one blend of an expression pedal (and without the jarring jump of volume of hitting a clean boost) without the usual tap dance or using more scenes.

One primary reason for this is that the other guitar player and I love to do extended solos where we trade solos which we sometimes do 8 beats, 16 beats, 32 beats each or any combination, plus playing harmony lines together. We drive sound guys nuts so we control our own boosts ourselves. It's just very fast and more subtle to rock an expression for me than it is to hop back and forth between two or more switches on a dark stage.

I've started experimenting and I think using the external controller will work nicely setting the min and max settings. Some of the fx I be left off the expression and be either on or off too.

A cool side effect of this use I found was that if I turn off the drive and parametric eq block I use for the boost on the Fender Twin sound and have the delay and verb left on, it acts as a wet / dry blend instead.
 
Deadringer : A LOT can be done with a single Exp pedal...just needs clever thinking the whole setup....and as Moke suggested : first assign the Exp pedal to 1 ext controller and start from there assigning all the others things to that ext controller....perhaps you could post a preset and explain which has to be merged which way....?
 
Sorry if you already know some of this stuff, It's always hard to tell how advanced someone is with this 'Black Box'.......Here is some extra info

Even the effect 'on/off' (bypass) duties can be handled from the same expression pedal. They won't 'morph' but the 'switch' can be setup to occur anywhere in the pedal travel. Also make sure the 'Delay' and 'Reverb' bypass states are set to 'mute fx in' to preserve the trails when bypassing.

If any kind of effect blending or 'morphing' is needed, It's probably better to always leave the effects on and just control the level of the effects. When controlling the level of 'Delays' and 'Reverbs' I prefer to use the 'Input Gain' parameter as opposed to the 'Mix' parameter because of the differing 'mix laws' of the different blocks and to preserve the trails.
 
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If no 'morphing' is needed, you may want to look at getting an expression pedal with a switch in it. Use that expression pedal as a dedicated volume control then just press on the toe switch to go to the 'lead' sound. Saves on floor space.
 
Expression pedal doesn't seem like right thing if you're not actually fading. If you're using a midi footboard you can just assign a single switch to an external controller, then use that the same way that you've talked about using the expression pedal. You can attach the same external controller to the bypass mode of a number of different effects - so on click can engage the null filter, drive, reverb, delay and so on. You can also attach the same external controller to the bypass modes of other blocks but backwards, so that it turns those blocks off when it turns the others on. You can also attach the same controller to other toggle modes controls in any block, so you could control the boost or bright toggles in an amp block at the same time.

You could also set up the switch to toggle a parameter between two numeric values by setting upper and lower limits when the applying the controller to the parameter. So you could use the same switch to toggle between two values for drive, for instance.

As far as I can tell, the one thing you can't do that would be really cool would be to flip between X/Y modes of a block.
 
So far it's working as I wanted it to. The only snag I'm finding is that the effects are totally off heel back. Any ideas?
 
deadringer said:
So far it's working as I wanted it to. The only snag I'm finding is that the effects are totally off heel back. Any ideas?
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Increasing the MIN value of pedal-sourced modifiers might work. I don't know if that would be ideal for all scenes. If you're only controlling a block's bypass state this isn't possible.

If you're still unsure of the best way to configure this, can you post a preset with scenes 1-4 set for rhythm sounds, and another with scenes 1-4 set for lead sounds? Or even 4 separate lead presets, allowing changes to things like mix/rate/etc. that could be approximated with scene controllers and routing techniques. This would probably be the best way to get more specific advice.
 
I thought you wanted the 'lead' effects off at heel down position?.......Are you talking about the Delay/Reverb 'Trails' getting cut off? If so.......... Read post #10 again
 
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