Underwhelming Live Recordings

P

PSea

Experienced
So, i finally felt like i had enough understanding to try recording a gig. im starting to wish i hadnt. lol. i used reaper recording off the PA (XR-18). when im playing live, i feel like my tone is ok. but when i listen back on the recordings...not so much. learned lots!

the other guitar just completely stops playing a surprising number of times. that is....when he's not 2x louder (he's peaking at -6dbfs when the rest of us are aiming for -18dbfs). uhg.

i also learned i need to change my laptop's power plan to prevent it from going into sleep mode. lost half of the first set to this.

but the real reason im posting this is...what should i trust more? my ears, that are telling me the preset sounds good or the recording that's telling me my preset has too much distortion or is too thin?

how many of you use recordings to tweak tones?
 
I've only dabbled with this using an X32 for doing something similar, but yes, the recording will sound different.

Your best bet for how it sounds "in the room" is to play the recording back through your XR18 into the PA, at rehearsal volume. Then you can use your XR18 to play with levels, EQ, compression, etc.

One thing I've been meaning to play with is to get a dry feed off my guitar into the X32 alongside my AX8 feed. Then, after rehearsal, I'd run my dry feed through my AX8 and play with amp/cab/etc. settings straight on the AX8. This way I'd be able to A/B my current tone to a tweaked tone, all through the PA, and with nothing buy my own time to waste.

BTW, I've found the fastest and maybe truest way to hear how you sound is to use a separate recorder somewhere in the room where your audience is. I use a Zoom H2N and think it does an OK job capturing what the audience actually hears.
 
Steevp said:
You're fighting the same battle as all of us, what sounds good on stage doesn't necessarily sound good recorded. What are you monitoring with on stage?
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im using ev pxm-12mp's. 1 behind me and one in front. good to know im not alone.
 
My experience has been that the FM9 sounds pretty much the same from the board as from FOH. But if the other musicians have real amps, and if people are largely not in FOH (like bass and drums, because often stage volume is enough for the venue), the FOH mix is completely unlike what the audience hears.
 
petesv650 said:
BTW, I've found the fastest and maybe truest way to hear how you sound is to use a separate recorder somewhere in the room where your audience is. I use a Zoom H2N and think it does an OK job capturing what the audience actually hears.
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Yeah, an external recorder will give a useful data point, your recorded tone another data point.

Then the "truth" of how you sound will be somewhere in between.
 
elvis said:
My experience has been that the FM9 sounds pretty much the same from the board as from FOH. But if the other musicians have real amps, and if people are largely not in FOH (like bass and drums, because often stage volume is enough for the venue), the FOH mix is completely unlike what the audience hears.
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in our case bass and kick were in the mix. no ther drum mics.
 
PSea said:
but the real reason im posting this is...what should i trust more? my ears, that are telling me the preset sounds good or the recording that's telling me my preset has too much distortion or is too thin?

how many of you use recordings to tweak tones?
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I definitely take recordings into account.

If you think you may have too much drive/distortion, you probably do. Less is more.

If you're thin in the mix, that could be that you're too low in the mix. Coming up out of the noise, you will hear high-mid first, the lows come up last. Doesn't help that the "other guitar" is 10dB louder. But also you probably need to be louder than you think. Guitar is basically another vocal instrument. If you're way lower than the lead vocal, you won't sound right. Or at all.
 
A live mix is not meant to sound good at home.

But it can help to correct some levels or overall frequencies especially highs and lows.
 
The recordings don't lie.

That being said, live is a lot more forgiving when you're actually there listening or playing. You just don't hear the warts as much for whatever reason. So it probably sounds good in peoples memory despite the recording. 🙃
 
It's nice that this topic is brought up because I'm on the same quest to get our live band (that is playing through our XAir 18) to have a studio sound.

As for guitar sounding thin in the recording, there's a couple of things to consider:

1. Bring your other guitarist levels down to yours.

2. Have your bass player work with you to marry your tones together and give thickness to your tone.

3. Lower your distortion, this will give your low end back but keep clarity. You'd be surprised that gain at 4 is just a bite'y as it is at 7, but you'll stand out in the mix more.


Also, when you play live, are you running with guitar cabs too? Your backline is probably making you sound thicker than your direct recordings to your XAir.
 
"Also, when you play live, are you running with guitar cabs too? Your backline is probably making you sound thicker than your direct recordings to your XAir."

my presets use cabs. but physically on stage, im only using a pair of ev pxm-12mp's which im quite happy with.
 
For a simple check i agree with the comment above about using a small recorder in audience area. I also have a Zoom H2n.
 
Can you confirm what you're recording off the XR-18 into Reaper?
  1. Board Mix - A stereo output of the mix that goes the PA
  2. AUX Mix - A dedicated stereo mix assigned to an AUX
  3. Multi-track - You're recording each channel independently so you can mix in Reaper later
People have made a lot of great comments on this thread, but some only apply depending on what you're actually recording.
 
RockYoWorld said:
Can you confirm what you're recording off the XR-18 into Reaper?
  1. Board Mix - A stereo output of the mix that goes the PA
  2. AUX Mix - A dedicated stereo mix assigned to an AUX
  3. Multi-track - You're recording each channel independently so you can mix in Reaper later
People have made a lot of great comments on this thread, but some only apply depending on what you're actually recording.
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im doing multi-track. each instrument has its own track. i figured the granularity would help me find what needs fixing.
 
did you record the signals right after the head amp? if so, no EQ, compression, faders or anything were captured and you just recorded directly out of each instrument. you'd have to mix that properly for both FOH and a recording.

this is the best way to record IMO, but the immediate playback will be as raw as it can be.
 
chris said:
did you record the signals right after the head amp? if so, no EQ, compression, faders or anything were captured and you just recorded directly out of each instrument. you'd have to mix that properly for both FOH and a recording.

this is the best way to record IMO, but the immediate playback will be as raw as it can be.
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hmmm. not sure what you mean by "right after the head amp." all instruments are sending a line signal direct to the PA. only things mic'd are drums. faders are adjusted a bit but input gain for ea track were set w the faders at unity to get most inputs hitting an average of -18dbfs.

in the PA, im not using any compression. no gate and very little EQ'ing. for the most part the PA EQing is for hi/lo cuts of bass, vocals, kick and the other guitar (he struggles to even figure out how to plug into his amp correctly. so i do eq'ing at the PA for him). plus, perhaps a bit of frequency cutting to prevent vox feedback.

for me, the fm9 out1 (+4db) is direct to the PA. running only mono. all my eq'ing is within the fm9.

imo, it's a pretty raw recording. perhaps a little to raw/honest lol.

does that answer your question?
 
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