Trying to master the master volume

mlancaster1

mlancaster1

Member
So I know this has been posted quite a big before because Ive been searching through all the previous threads on this topic, but I still am having a hard time trying to nail this parameter down. For one, if I select an amp, say a recto or EVH, will the master volume by default be set to it "sweet spot"? That was one thing I believed to be true but when selecting certain models like the FAS blue, the master volume at default is slightly above 5 and sounds not so good. For the 5150 and Diezel style amps I find the master around 2-3 seems to work better for my needs but I just don't really trust my ear sometimes. Using the headroom meter is kind of tricky too, because with the 6160 amp blocks, they are defaulted around MV being at 4 and the meter shows it hitting at around 0db, so I don't know if they are supposed to be defaulted at the general sweet spot for master volume or if its a matter of taste. Hoping to get a clearer understanding of the amp blocks default settings and a general rule of thumb with high gain amps or maybe even using the headroom meter.
 
The amps default to a "typical" Master Volume setting. "Good" and "sweet spot" are highly subjective. Different amps will have different amounts of power amp breakup in use, so their master volume settings can vary wildly. Non-master volume amps always default to 10, which is the equivalent of not having one. I typically favor lower Master Volume settings on high gain amps for a tighter and more focused response. More is not always better. Don't be afraid to experiment and trust your ears.

The headroom meter is your friend here. It shows the amount of clean headroom in the power amp. Driving it above 0 dB introduces compression and breakup in the power amp. Whether or not that's a good thing depends entirely on what kind of sound you're going for. Driving the power amp harder can add warmth and fatness to an otherwise cold or sterile sound. However, driving it too hard can also sometimes make it sound flabby and wooly, so it's a balancing act.

In the real world, driving the power amp hard usually means excessive volume and faster tube wear, but in the Fractal universe both of those are non-issues.
 
I've found that a good starting point for most amps is to set the master volume to 7, and crank the power tube grid bias to 65%-70%. Then if it sounds sterile I'll turn the MV up. If it sounds wooly I'll turn it down. I usually end up with the MV set somewhere between 6 and 8.
 
Where the master volume sweet spot is varies from amp to amp. I'm not sure if all the fractal models have their default master volume set to be the sweet spot so you might have to research the real amp and see what the consensus is. It's also important to note that there's no substitute for actual volume. The sweet spot for a dual rec master volume is around 2-3 partly because only the most insane masochist who wants to inflict pain directly to their ears would ever try to play a dual rec above that. In the digital world, you can crank the master volume without the actual volume and it may sound ok at home but not when played at gig volumes.

Just remember that the master volume is what controls the power amp tubes and tubes will always have some sort of affect on tone. Always use your ears and listen at gig volume.But if you want to use your eyes, that headroom meter shows you when the power amp is breaking up.
 
Echoing what others have said here, on gain-ier amps/tones the "Master Volume" generally benefits from being lowered from the default (but, as noted above, this is always amp dependent and not an absolute). ie: on the Friedman amps in the AFX I turn it down from the default of "4" to around "2.8". It opens up the amp, is less compressed and articulates better and you can get more latitude from the "Input Gain" control.

I find higher gain amps gererally fall apart pretty quick with higher then default "Master Volume" settings, particularly with the latest modelling. They become woofy, too unfocused, and there is no nuance by playing lighter/harder/dynamically.

As always, this is all about individual taste and what you're looking for.

The default value of "4" (or even a bit higher) is cool if you want a bit more squish without having a big change in overall tone.

I also find with v8 on the FM9 the "Master Volume" seems to behave a little differently and is more "tweakable" vs previous firmwares. The "Master Volume" is one of the first controls I tweak when dialing in an amp; always has been as it has a huge global effect on tone and feel.
 
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mlancaster1 said:
Using the headroom meter is kind of tricky too, because with the 6160 amp blocks, they are defaulted around MV being at 4 and the meter shows it hitting at around 0db, so I don't know if they are supposed to be defaulted at the general sweet spot for master volume or if its a matter of taste.
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I find the "B+" meter in the "Power Supply" to be more useful many times vs the "Headroom Meter". You can have a ton of power amp headroom but the "B+" is sagging by a few dB (~3 -> 5 dB) which causes some amps to feel overly spongy and compressed.

You can then leave the "Master Volume" where it is if you like the gain/tone but want less compression by tweaking the "Supply Sag" parameter (or even the "B+ Time Constant" value, etc.).

But, ultimately, it's all about what you like and your taste vs making the meters "look right".
 
Ocnor said:
I've found that a good starting point for most amps is to set the master volume to 7, and crank the power tube grid bias to 65%-70%. Then if it sounds sterile I'll turn the MV up. If it sounds wooly I'll turn it down. I usually end up with the MV set somewhere between 6 and 8.
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Cool...what amps do you usually use and for what kind of tones?
 
Ocnor said:
I mainly use the Marshall and Fender style amps. My tones are mostly 70s and 80s style classic and hard rock.
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Ahhh I see...I use those both as well as I cover similar era tones and styles a lot. I generally leave the "Master Volume" at "10" since those amps don't have a MV. 🍻
 
I appreciate the responses, that does help. I think for awhile I was pretty content with some of my initial 6160 or evh type patches, which I kept the MV around 3 max. But I've been experimenting and finding myself gravitate to a diezel blue or stealth blue channel lately for hi gain tone but from my understanding the different amps will default to their MV level as a "sweet spot" or I guess a recommended base level and noticed when trying certain amps like the new FAS stealth blue model that the master was cranked way higher then I would set it, so this made me start obsessing over this topic lol. And with the headroom meter, I know you want to keep it from hitting 0db constantly but with the 5150 style amp blocks I would see that meter by default hitting pretty close to 0 so I just wanted to make sure I understood that perfectly.
 
Mike Hagger said:
Nope, it doesn't matter. Loads of my my presets smash the headroom meter. It's the instrument input level and the final output block level that applies to.
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AFAIK, its fine (often unavoidable) to be tickling red (intermittent red flicker) at guitar input. But on output, red on the meter is avoided due to its resultant audible and nasty sounding digital clipping.
 
Stratoblaster said:
I find the "B+" meter in the "Power Supply" to be more useful many times vs the "Headroom Meter". You can have a ton of power amp headroom but the "B+" is sagging by a few dB (~3 -> 5 dB) which causes some amps to feel overly spongy and compressed.

You can then leave the "Master Volume" where it is if you like the gain/tone but want less compression by tweaking the "Supply Sag" parameter (or even the "B+ Time Constant" value, etc.).

But, ultimately, it's all about what you like and your taste vs making the meters "look right".
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+1 on b+ meter

I personally like to keep it at 0.0 db (no deviation whatsoever) so it’s as “tight” as it can be without adjusting supply sag or b+ time constant [for amps that are designed mainly for preamp distortion]

I can be confident there’s little to no power amp coloration (in the clipping sense) then

Game changer and outstanding feature compared to the other modellers IMO

Tangent-

It’s be great if there was a visual analog equivalent to this way of monitoring headroom in the IRL amps
 
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mr_fender said:
Tone generator and an oscilloscope.
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That definitely works!

Though I should’ve been mentioned or meant to say that I want it built in the front of the amplifier

not an oscilloscope view but like 3 LED’s (spectrum from yellow>orange>red) lights turning on if you’re close to sagging (yellow) then eventually to red (when power amp sags)

(but of course you can always use your ears if there’s change in volume or sagginess)

Though I know the old marshall amps have led lights getting dimmer when cranked (probably not intended as a headroom meter though)
 
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